To not want PIL to stay with us when the baby is born

[Rotorua]

Sorry for the long post. So we are expecting our first born in the beginning of November. PIL live in India and want to come to stay with us for at least a month around the time when the baby is born to help us out. Last year they stayed with us for one month (that was the first time they stayed with us) and it did not go so greatly. DH is blaming our small appartment for all the problems. Now we are in process of buying a bigger 3 bedroom house with 1 bathroom and 1 toilet, and DH thinks it will make a difference. DH is working in contracting at the moment and is starting his own business, so he says we will need the help as he might not be able to take a long leave. PIL are nice people, but I felt really suffocated in my own home when they were staying, and I am not used to long visits. They do speak English, but all their family talks are in Hindi, as I don’t speak it I’m always the odd one out and feel uncomfortable.
Now I am having discussions with DH about them staying with us when the baby is born. I am putting my foot down that I don’t want anyone staying over at least the first 3 months after the baby is born. DH says that will crush them and they really want to see a newborn, not a 3 month old baby.

We were thinking of getting them an AirBnB, but my worry is that they will then anyway stay with us all day long and leave only in the evening, because they don’t go out much during the day and don’t eat outside, so they would only come to us.

AIBU for not letting them come? Maybe you have some positive stories about PIL staying over after the baby is born.

We are trying to come up with a solution, but so far it looks like there isn’t a solution that could make everyone happy. DH says it will be what I want at the end of the day, but at the same time he says I am alienating him from his family...

Why does it need to be a month? That is ridiculous a week at most WHEN you are settled and feeling better after baby!!

Thank you so much for all your opinions 
I really appreciate it. Some of you mentioned here that I need to compromise. I very much need my personal space and they know that, and them staying overnight at our place is a compromise enough I think even when the baby will be 3 months.

I forgot to mention that last time PIL were here at the last weeks of their visit DH said that next time they will stay at the hotel, as it was difficult for both of us, and DH got into some arguments with them. So it's difficult for me to forget that experience and think that this time around it will be so much different. And I don't want any raised voices around the baby. I know their intentions are good, I am just scared it won't work out the way everyone hopes. Last time they were here PIL invited SIL to come stay with us without us knowing about it. We knew she was coming after PIL would leave, but in the end SIL missed her parents and came to stay with us for few days before they left. So it was 5 people crammed into 2 bedroom appartment. I feel like all these choices are made without my knowledge and if I keep going on like this I will never be in control.

I am quite comfortable with MIL, but not so much with FIL. I have to think about what I am wearing when I am around him, so I am sure I wouldn't be comfortable with breastfeeding when he is in the room. And I don't think I should cover myself up in my own house. I'm quite sure I can't ask only MIL to stay with us, as FIL is very dependent on her.

@PotolBabu Aww, your experience sounds so nice and I am sure that's how my PIL want it to work out too.

@HJWT Tell me about it. I still don't understand why it has to be so long. I was told it's very common for Indian parents to come visit their children during summer months if they live abroad and when it's too hot in India for them. So last time there times when 3 month stay was mentioned.
I understand they are quite old and it must be difficult for them with the long distance flights, so it makes more sense if they stay for longer and spend more time with us in that one month if that is their only visit in the year

So my in laws and parents come for 3 months as well. They can’t deal with the winter so the summer is the only time they can come. They are literally paralysed by the cold in winter. (My mother thinks 20 degrees is freezing!)
It’s expensive to come. UK visa costs are extortionate. So paying that for a week’s visit seems absurd. And finally, now that there are 4 of us it’s very expensive to travel to India over the Christmas break. It’s cheaper for us to buy them the tickets to come than for the 4 of us to go. We still go because I have other family and I want my boys to always feel comfortable in India. But the long visits are logistical as much as cultural.

But it’s about what YOU are comfortable with. I have had more than 5 in my flat once. I loved waking up to the whole family drinking tea and chatting. I remember handing DS1 over to them and going for a nice long shower and came back to find him sitting in the middle of the circle mesmerised by the chatter. I like people, company, lots of aunties and cousins around, my extended family. And the crazy family gossip. I am not sure I would be quite so tolerant if I was in India but since I am not, I don’t mind it.

If this is not your comfort zone then start putting your foot down now. If the in laws irritate me and they do, sometimes, it is DH’s job to deal with them. In fact he finds the long visits tougher (they judge him more than they judge me!) than I do. I don’t mind coming home after a long day of work to a clean house and fresh parathas! So you need your DH to work out what he’s comfortable with, once you have stated explicitly what the outer limits of your tolerance are. And be firm.

There will be lots of parenting ‘advice’. Ignore it. My MIL claims she potty trained from birth. Then one day revealed that both DH and BIL had regular ‘accidents’ till school age. I parent in a more ‘Western’ style and they do find it a bit odd. (Saying ‘I love you’ to one’s children is really not the norm even though there is a lot of affection. I don’t recall my parents saying it!). I weaned and potty trained ‘Western style.’ MIL and my mum were a bit skeptical but by then they knew better than to irritate me.

Why didn’t you invite them to your wedding? I think if you had there wouldn’t have been any issues with them waiting a bit to see their grandchild. Seems, from your posts, rhat your DH didn’t really agree with them being excluded but compromised for you and now he wants you to compromise for 1 month for the baby.

In Indian (particularly Hindu and Muslim) culture Weddings, funerals, and births are all really important. There are a number of ceremonies and rituals that need to be performed and I’m guessing your mil wants to be around from birth for the 6 day and 30 day ceremonies - both of them are essential for baby in Hindu cultures. Even Indian Muslims have similar ceremonies. Did you ever ask why they are insisting on coming from birth? If you were from the same culture as them then they wouldn’t need to come in the first month as your parents would perform those rituals.

Also if you aren’t up to having both of them around invite just your mil and then offer to have them both come back when baby is older. But it seems wrong to me that you have effectively excluded them from one important event in your life and are now doing it again.

I hate my mil but she comes for 6 months at a time (every two years) because it makes my husband happy to have her here. So I button up — my parents are here in the UK but DH’s entire family is in India. As I love him, I want him to be able to see at least part of his family and would never think to refuse a family visit. Let alone block them from my wedding (like you I also had a small intimate wedding but unlike you, I invited in laws and budgeted to fly them over).

Yes your DH married someone from a western background and so should compromise but OP married someone from an Indian background and should also compromise. That’s what a marriage is really. Can’t expect to have it all on your terms.

Thank you @PotolBabu for sharing your experience. It sounds amazing when you are all so close, that must make things so much easier.

Unfortunately I haven't yet reached that level of comfort with my PIL. I think one of the main issues is the language barrier, and I can only imagine it would hurt me (especially when I am all hormonal) to watch them all talk among themselves when I have no clue what is going on.

During our visits or when they stayed with us I tried not to mind not being able to engage, but I am not sure how that would work after I just have had a baby

For the first 6 weeks I bleed really heavily, I was torn and needed to bath my bits a lot, I needed time and space to change pads and found moving around really hard. I leaked milk all the time and my nipples were so sore. Yes I had visitors but no I certainly wouldn't of wanted people there all the time.
I think you need to read this ^^ to DH. Does he seriously think that if (and you could, to be fair, feel fantastic post-birth) you feel like this you're really going to want his parents there & to be doing all the entertaining yourself????

@Teddybear45 I think for a month we planned to have a wedding with both our families. I had a dream of having a wedding according to my culture, DH also wanted only this type of wedding, but knew that there will have to be a separate ceremony to keep his parents happy. I was ok with that. That's what we were going for for a while till it just became impossible, as PIL wanted to have both ceremonies in one day. I had just never imagined thag I will have a time limit during my own wedding to do photos, eat the cake or stay in the dress as long as I want and then hurry to the other ceremony. Then we decided (DH mentioned it first) to have our own small wedding ceremony here (as for PIL it was more important to have a ceremony according to their traditions) and have an Indian wedding afterwards in India where we could only focus on that. That also didn't work out the way they wanted as my dad didn't want to come to India for that and he was needed for one of the ceremonies (I think it was the fire ceremony). I said I am ok with someone else doing it, but PIL just abandoned the whole wedding idea then, and we had a reception instead in a way that they wanted. I wished they had gone with the proper wedding idea to keep them happy, but at the end it was up to them.

I don't see it as me completely ignoring their wishes. Our wedding day was our wedding day and afterwards we still celebrated our day in their way as well. Us being from different cultures means there will have to be comprises, and they will have to compromise too.

Yes but without the Hindu wedding you aren’t considered married in Hindu religion. It’s important culturally and doesn’t have to be a big deal - could be in a temple. You think it isn’t a big deal for your dad to say no to going to India, fair enough, but what did your DH think?

I get the feeling he probably has compromised over and over again and now wants a little part of his own culture (not unreasonable).

Similarly the 6 day and 30 day ceremonies for a baby are really, really important - 6 day ceremony is the one where the baby is named and it’s believed that it’s destiny is written (in some Indian cultures it’s when the baby develops it’s soul). The 30 day ceremony is the first time a child is taken out of the house (usually to a temple) and at that point is considered to be part of the family. It’s when the in laws celebrate, money is given, parties are often held.

If you have a boy the first haircut/head shaving is also really vital. That is the point after which in a lot of Indian cultures a baby gets it’s soul. Again a really important ceremony.

I just think if you keep saying no, eventually both you and the baby will just keep getting further and further away from the baby’s Indian heritage. That could hamstring you eventually - I have cousins and neices / nephews who are half-white and half-black but look Indian and so never fit in with their mother’s families but also weren’t encouraged to take part into Indian / Hindu culture either. All of them now blame their parents for not making more of an effort - and except one, the rest all then got converted into really intense fundamentalist forms of Hinduism. These fundamentalist forms prey on half-Indian people as they often don’t get to experience ‘real’ forms of hinduism.

This is going to be a very difficult time for you - my experience of bringing a baby into a cross-cultural relationship is that there are a lot of people all wanting to do things 'their way' - not just you and DH, but his family as well. From everything from what happens in the weeks following the birth to what name is chosen for your child.

It took us a really long time to find our groove with the extended family and our kids. I am probably not the best host (I find houseguests tiresome, even my own family), and they are not the easiest houseguests either. I think they want to be helpful, but aren't always. And the language barrier is something I empathise with: I found it really hurtful to be cut out of conversations with my baby (but actually the baby doesn't understand anything anyway).

I wouldn't want house guests for that long, but I know my DH would have felt under pressure to host them if his were overseas. I'm not really sure what the answer is - as much as he chose a westerner in the UK, you married someone whose family live overseas. Everyone will want to see the new baby, and they can't exactly pop in for a couple of hours. Alternative accommodation for them would be pragmatic, but would be seen as a snub on your part. They want to help, they want to be involved, but I get how you feel.

My only advice would be to try to keep things as light as possible (nigh on impossible in the first days postpartum), as their extended days as the children get older might actually be a blessing. Maybe a good idea is to see how birth goes and then get them to come depending on how well everyone is.

@Teddybear45 I am not refusing a family visit in any way. I am just asking them to compromise and come visit us later than they intended. I would even be ok with a long visit, but I can't predict how the labour will go and in what kind of state I will be afterwards. And I know I am not on that comfort level to have them around when I am the most vulnerable however helpful they might be.

I know there are some rituals involved, but I am not religious at all and my DH is the same.
Like I said I would be ok with MIL to visit us, but that is not an option, as FIL can't be left alone.

The thought of having visitors to stay while I was bleeding heavily (often soaking through in those first few days), sleep deprived, having my tits hanging out from constant breastfeeding while applying nipple cream to my sore cracked nipples and the midwife poking around my c section scar makes me want to vom!

We had stuff everywhere, eating at random times around the (non) routine of the baby... I can't imagine anything worse than throwing some house guests in the mix!

Those first few weeks are precious for your new little family too. Could you compromise at maybe 6 weeks, once you've had the all clear from the doctor?

@Teddybear45 Yes, but not having a Hindu wedding was entirely their idea. Both DH and I were happy with having whatever ceremony they want. In the circumstances it was unfair to pressure my dad to go to India when he has never even left the country. We tried to accommodate PIL's wishes, but they were more concerned about public appearances and what will relatives think if my dad is not part of the ceremony, so that's why they called it off.

DH just wanted to be married to me. He didn't have much preferences to what type of ceremony it is or if we guests or not. And since he had come to live in the UK, he wanted a traditional wedding according to traditions here.

I know about the first headshave and with my DH we have agreed it won't happen. We want to raise our child according to traditions here. I am not imposing any traditions from my background, and I would expect the same from them. DH and I are not religious at all, so we will raise our child the same. I don't want to impose something on my child that I don't fully understand myself. When he/she grows up, they can have freedom to choose either of the religions be it Hinduism ,Christianity or something else entirely.

All I am asking here from PIL to be understanding when the baby is born and if their visit goes well when the baby is big enough, then maybe if there is next time they can stay with us when the baby is born.

Thank you @stillworkingitout. I think a lot of what you mentioned are also my concerns. We have already stumbled upon the name issue. PIL want an Indian name, but DH had been clear from the beginning it won't be, so that's sorted I think.
I kept my surname after marriage and the baby will have my surname (mostly my DH's wish), and I think that will be shock to them as well.

And yes, the language barrier bothers me so much when we visit already, so I can only imagine how much it will bother me with the hormones all over the place and them talking to my baby without me having a clue what they say.

I agree you shouldn't have to do anything you are uncomfortable with, this is your pregnancy, your birth and baby. Currently you don't know how any of it is going to go and I personally found it very difficult to try and breastfeed with people over wanting to hold baby especially in an asian culture where I would be expected to take baby away to feed in private. I started to just whip them out and let baby feed and anyone uncomfortable with it could leave the room before we started but it takes confidence to do that. As for asking his parents over I can understand that they would want to see a newborn however if your dh is not going to be present for all of their stay it shouldn't fall to you to take care of them. It might be that they are a great help to you and will cook and clean and take care of baby which some mums would be happy with. Totally depends on if you are the type that would want to take it all on yourself. On the other hand it could be that they expect you to do all of that which would just be an unnecessary burden.As a side note marrying a partner from another culture requires a lot of give and take on both parts. It is not unreasonable for them to talk in the language that they feel most comfortable ie. Hindi and if you are with a partner from a different culture and have a baby learning the language really should be a priority if only so you can share in that with them.Your partner has said ultimately it is down to you but I can totally understand his family would feel alienated if you ban a visit for three months. What about a compromise of 6 weeks whereby you get the all clear from your dr, feeding will hopefully be established and fingers crossed you will be feeling like you are in a good place with baby. Hope it all goes well for you and try not to stress over it too much before your lo arrives x

Her baby is not going to become a fundamentalist if her PIL visit when it's three months old instead of newborn. What a fucking weird thing to even mention.

I might compromise on the dates. They want to come soon after birth, you'd prefer 12+ weeks. I'd compromise on something around 8 weeks but see if your DH can take some half days off work? You'll have the precious first couple of weeks with you and DH, he'll be back at work and you'll have a few weeks getting used to being at home with the baby, establishing feeding etc. Then inlaws visit, maybe DH takes some days or half days off work, you'll be feeling much more confident and I would suggest going out with the baby; a walk to the park, visit a farm, go to a baby group and baby weighin (inlaws could come too). Just getting out of the house can make a massive difference. DH to chat to his mum about her role (seems like traditionally she would want to cook, clean and be helpful) to clarify expectations.

I would also just feed where you're most comfortable. I had a BFing cover for a while as that made me feel much better feeding in front of DH's grandad, my dad and generally at church. Possibly something to consider.

I really hope it works out well for you and you have a nice visit with your inlaws.

@chamenanged - beg to differ. A lot of fundamentalist forms of Hinduism in the UK and US (and India) exist only because of half-Indians. When you go to the temples the vegan, one meal a day eating, Geeta quoting, shaved head / laaj wearing worshippers are almost always half-Indian (usually half-Hindu not in touch with real Hinduism in their families, or white). It’s like any religion really - converts are the most likely to be attracted to fundamentalism as they don’t have experience of building the moderate form of their religion into their everyday lives.

Personally I'd compromise, it is his parents after all and I would want my parents to feel welcomed. Could they stay with you a week then in a hotel for a bit? I don't think you are unreasonable not to want a month, but not at all is also a bit unnecessary and to be honest seems a bit unkind to me. I know many others have disagreed with me, but that's my thoughts. Imagine in the future the same scenario with you and your grandchild, how would you feel if your child said you couldn't stay with them and see your grandchild. It's completely up to the two of you, but as I said, to me it just seems a little unkind.

@Teddybear45 are there a specific number of days after birth that PILs have to be allowed to arrive to stay to stop the baby becoming a fundamentalist, please?

One thing to note that these ceremonies are not ‘Hindu’. I am Hindu but we don’t have a 6 or 30 day ceremony. And we don’t shave their heads. DH’s family is also Hindu but they have a 10 day naming ceremony. And they shave heads. My dad is an atheist and refused on principle to participate in the wedding ceremony so no one gave me away. These are all entirely flexible in modern day Hinduism (we even had female priests which is very rare). The compromises are between OP and her DH. If they are both on the same page, the rest will fit in.
DH is Brahmin (I am not). He doesn’t want the thread ceremony for his kids. MIL I know is sad about this but hey ho.
I also retained my surname. DH backed me up. It was fine.
The kids have Indian names but we are both Indian so that’s fine.

I think the one thing I will say is this that I made a deliberate choice to live far from my parents and they encouraged me to do so for educational opportunities. But it is when I had kids that the distance really made a difference. It is sad that my kids don’t see their grandparents that frequently. But all our siblings live in London so they have aunties and cousins. Without this it would be tough emotionally in the long run. So I wouldn’t say begrudge SIL staying a few extra nights in the OP’s case (esp when her parents are around) but if I wasn’t comfortable I would knock the long visit on its head or make alternative arrangements for them.