Flaming tiktok- aibu

[heatingoninjune]

Yes my heating really IS on in June (thanks autoimmune disease, I'm permanently cold) and yes I have namechanged.

My 9 year old, y4 daughter thinks I'm highly unreasonable because I wont download TikTok onto her tablet which I have full parental controls over and a keylogger on, She knows I can see everything she does, remotely if I feel the need to. Cue almighty meltdown about TikTok tonight and a tablet ban for the next week unless its a) for homework and b) she produces her homework diary to prove it. Production of the homework diary is because she tried to flout the 'nothing questionable on youtube rule' by saying it was for her homework.

For those not in the know, this is what National Online Safety say about TikTok

By default, users accounts are automatically set to public when they first create an account. TikTok encourages users to share creative expression through their videos, but if posted publicly, anyone in the world can see your child’s homemade content. There have also been concerns the Chinese government could access data or sway public opinion through the app. If your child’s profile is open, strangers can use the app to comment on your child’s videos. While this isn’t always sinister, it gives potential predators the ability to contact your child through the platform.

TikTok lets users lip-sync to their favourite songs and produce their own music videos. Some of the music choices contain swear words or sexual themes. So not only can children be exposed to potentially inappropriate content but they can broadcast themselves miming or singing these lyrics. In addition to this, some of the outfits and dance moves in videos can be overtly sexual and provocative. There have also been reports of some users sharing concerning content, such as videos that promote anorexia, porn, self-harm and violence.

While the swearing doesnt bother me as such as I dont mind her knowing swear words but I mind her using them its being able to access the other content that I do object to.
Apparently all her friends use TikTok to talk to each other, she is the only one who doesnt have it and I am a cow (thats what led to the tablet ban) because I wont let her have it. And dd is aware that she can lie about her age to get around the age restriction (its got an age limit of 13). There is also a live streaming function available once users get to 1000 likes. Over my dead body will she be live streaming anything.

So AIBU for not letting her have it? Fwiw DH is backing me in my stance and he is the more lenient of the two of us.

So don't use your child's photo as a profile photo?

How would anyone ever see them if they are private?

Could you link to the studies you mean please? Always like to add to my library. Thanks.

Mostly these days originating at early childhood use of social media and internet useage, 'e-safety'

Originating because of poor parenting. Unfettered access, too young, no teaching or supervision. The first young generation were left to find it out on their own. The generation coming up are far more clued up and are starting to use it more appropriately, because we’ve taken the time to teach kids about e-safety and parents are more clued up than they were 15 years ago.

It’s like giving a kid a bag of chocolate. You can hand it to them, with guidance and supervision and make sure they eat it responsibly, or you can hand it to them and let them get on with it. A good parent does the former, a lazy parent does the latter. There are very few unsafe apps. It’s all about how well it is used.

I agree with op. Use if tik tok (with it's awful reputation) isn't good for children. The 13 age restriction is in place for reason. The most famous of social media and computing adults famously restrict their own children.

My husband works in the field and without wanting to sound "men know all" - despite simulations three degrees I really dispute what she says. All of my family's privilege and wealth are made from social media and advances in advertisements therein. Children shouldn't be using social media. The 13 year guideline is lowest possible limit without having to risk any future harm or more importantly lawsuit. These sites are designed to be addictive, the adverts personalised, all data used to best advantage. Let's be real about this. Children aren't equipped to deal with that (nor are we- I believe that social media damages all of us in many ways. But I'm a hypocrite because that's how our family make our living )

Stick to your guns! Bloody hate tiktoc! My dd is 13 and watched it loads before I banned it, it's banal anyway, hated the content and she would have wasted hours on it if she could. Not sure about settings and stuff as anything that needs extensive googling to be made safe is off the list (life's too short and there is a whole real world out there to engage with). I made the fatal error of buying a tv with youtube button last year, it's been hell! I can't block it, disable it or police it so I'm just going back to a standard telly- again life is too short. I feel so lucky that I was able to enjoy my childhood without all this guff, really feel for young kids nowdays.

I haven't mentioned social media. I wouldn't let a young child on Facebook or Snapchat, for instance. TikTok, if set up correctly and very restricted, isn't social media, as you can't be social on it then. It's simply a recording app with music.

What about the millions of children worldwide who upload the exact same thing to Just Dance, as I've previously mentioned, for anyone to access? Apparently that's fine but it's less restricted than a well set up TikTok. Makes no sense.

I never let mine have mobile phones until high school, never let them watch dvd or play games under the recommended age unless I’d seen the content and felt it was ok. . Was the worst mum in the world at the time but the eldest son is now 19 and fully understands now why I did it and thinks overall it was a good thing. I have no regrets and still cringe when I hear of 8/9 yo playing 18+ games and watching inappropriate dvds. I’m no prude but think they have age guidance for a reason. I’ve also seen what damage social media can do to young children who can be naive to the dangers. I’ve seen underage children of IT savvy parents get into deep water on social media sites which are for 13 or 16+.

YANBU. 9 is too young for social media. Revisit this once she hits her teens.

newatlas.com/screen-time-digital-technology-adolescent-mental-health/58019/

It is the absolute fucking bane of my existence.
And I need to make it not be the bane of my existence.
All of DD's friends are at it. ALL OF THEM. So I caved about a month ago, maybe 3 weeks. Longest 3 weeks of my life. It's awful in that she doesn't have the ability to engage in anything else at the moment. It's as if her childlike ways have been stolen away. DD had a friend over today and DD kept leaving her friend alone so she could sneak off to the loo and look at tiktok (thinking I wouldn't notice).

Anyway, this thread has reminded me that THIS is the week tiktok stops in this household.
There's nothing good about it.

Thanks for all your opinions. However as much of a cow that makes me (thanks dd!) she still isn't having tiktok. My 9 year old daughter isn't uploading any videos of herself to the internet, end of. Even if it is just to her friends.

Yes, DD does have a fire tablet and she also has a phone. The phone is only because she goes away with family a lot and likes to be able to phone me. And has internet disabled on it.

@GorkyMcPorky its qustodio software we use. A bit pricey as we have the 10 device option but worth it. However my BIL has also installed a 3rd party keylogger on my laptop that dd uses after the YouTube incident. It logs every single press of the keyboard or click of the mouse.

wow social media moves fast. my youngest is 13 and I can't believe I have never heard of tiktok before this thread. Feels like at 13 they are too old! (it is YouTube and instagram here)

My 8 year old had it with our supervision and it seemed very innocent for a long time. I watched all the videos with him and there was no bad language at all. Just funny clips, creative ones.

Then one day he came into the front room and asked me what a butt plug was.

I never watched that videos.

Tiktok was deleted, never to be seen again.
Fuck sake.

Fernick it used to be called something else until recently.

It used to be called music.ly I think.

9 is too young but otherwise don't think it's any worse than any other SM. You can upload videos to instagram, Twitter etc. Don't use your real name or photo or any other real details in your profile, set account to private. The music is as sexually suggestive as the average youth-orientated radio station.

Even if you had every setting locked down teaching a 9 year old child that they need to perform certain behaviours for 'likes' or 'shares' is a definite no. If they are not sharing it with friends then just use a standard video capture and filters to record themselves singing along to some music. And any child of mine that called me a 'cow' over a tablet would have he damn thing removed for a month, they absolutely don't need it for homework (at a push she might in secondary)

My 9 year old DD has it. She is not allowed to show her face in the videos and her account is locked down. She has a couple of friends who comment on her videos, which are mostly of her dolls and the cat. I have an account too which I use only to follow hers and check she is keeping to the rules. Eg I made her delete a video in which a picture with her name on showed in the background.

I don't particularly like it, but haven't seen anything bad enough to pull the plug. On the other hand I won't let her get Roblox which makes me pretty inconsistent.

I always find supposed experts trying to throw their weight around on here highly suspect.

I think this sums up perfectly the point @SimulationTheorist is missing:

"Even if you had every setting locked down teaching a 9 year old child that they need to perform certain behaviours for 'likes' or 'shares' is a definite no."

Getting groomed is not the only problem with social media.

Agree 'e-safety' is an outdated term and going on several courses doesn't make you an expert 🙄. You have a valid opinion but it doesn't carry any more weight than anyone else's.

Uploading videos for other children to comment on and “like”? And what happens if they don’t get any likes? How does the child feel about that and who’s there to rebuild their shattered confidence? The parent who encouraged them to do it in the first place?

As usual, Charlie Brooker was way ahead of the curve.

They won't get likes and shares if they aren't friends with anyone. The account is locked down. It's a simple concept that you seem to be missing.

E-safety is still used in all the schools here.

I didn't say I was an expert, I said it was my research area, of which I am still carrying out. On my fourth degree - but here on Mumsnet, anyone carrying out academic research is automatically a liar I also didn't say my opinion was worth more than anyone else's, so calm down.

It's a simple concept that you seem to be missing.

You think all their friends are going to like their videos? In our school, friends fall out all the time an this is a perfect way to be unkind to someone you’ve fallen out with.

E-safety is still used in all the schools here.

“Online safety” is used by CEOP and other organisations that are at the forefront of this issue.

The Welsh Government, the NSPCC, Estyn, the police and numerous other organisations that provide training as well as Teacher Training universities and hundreds of schools use the term e-safety. They may also use other terms, but as we are all intelligent enough (even the children in Reception class) to realise that e-safety, online safety, Internet safety etc are the same thing, there is never an issue.

We don’t use any of those terms with our Reception children.We talk in language they will find it easy to understand.

Well done on googling hundreds of schools’ online safety policies within a few minutes, though. Impressive

Why wouldn't a Reception child understand E-safety? How bizarre. Do you often find that babying language works then, as here we encourage our trainee teachers to use rich language from the age of three, particularly as we are teaching bilingually. Children are more than capable of using the term, especially as the police etc. visit schools and use it. They're growing up hearing it.

I work with hundreds of schools. It's a very common term.

Anyway, you've taken the thread off on a tangent arguing about a word that is still widely used. Well done, you must feel so superior

Comments like the one above about making the child delete a video they had uploaded showing their face which you had told them not to are what really concern me.

Even though you deleted it that video was there and is potentially now out in the world of the internet for life. You don't know that that video wasn't saved and/or copied by anyone who had access to it while it was up (and yes I mean her friends). Or that the app doesn't still have it saved just not visible.
When you upload anything to these apps you are giving them the video. Forever.

The term Online Safety has been used for a while now and covers more than just 'e safety.' I know some schools still refer to e- safety in their policies but they shouldn't be doing so. OFSTED also prefers the use of Online Safety. CEOP always used Online Safety. It's who I did my latest ambassador training with too.

We don’t use any of those terms with our Reception children.We talk in language they will find it easy to understand

We do use the correct terminology with reception age, right from day 1. I believe it is important to do so. We teach Online Safety from the beginning of September in reception age, and revisit it throughout the terms regularly. I encourage all of our staff to do the same when ever they are using computers and iPads, and other internet enabled devices, with the children.

Actually 4yos are really good at using and understanding these concepts.

We use the CEOP materials as our basis, with additional activities and materials around them. There are also some very good child appropriate books and picture books available.