To be deeply disappointed in John Cleese

[drspouse]

I have no idea if this is typical but he just tweeted that London isn't an English city any more
What is it then pray tell? What's not English about it??

Mexico City

Must have been a handy coincidence that when the Spanish Conquistadors landed in South America they found the people already spoke Spanish. Otherwise they might have been forced to undertake a bloody programme of genocide to ensure they did ....

‘Ok not racist but it’s a very sweeping statement, there are very privileged men of all colours.“

Mostly white in this country, to be honest......

@BertrandRussell

Because the majority of the population is white?

There is something called Paris Syndrome where tourists experience profound disappointment about the reality of somewhere vs the image.

It comes from Japanese tourists being crushed at finding that Paris is more Spiral than an American in Paris and people aren't all wandering along the Left Bank in striped tops or painting in Montmartre etc.

I suppose a tourist could be underwhelmed by the fact that London isn't all swinging London Carnaby St and bobbies bicycling two by two (as per the song) Mary Poppins etc etc.

For me the worst point about London now (and I grew up in London suburb and lived and worked in central London for 15 years) is that it seems really, really crowded. Sometimes it seems like a giant AirB&B and not a living and working environment. But the same goes for New York. I went back there last year after a 20 year absence and was stupefied at how touristy everything had become... like it was just a theme park.

“Because the majority of the population is white?”

Of course. What did you think I meant?

Hmm, having visited Dublin a lot lately it has also changed massively. Most service staff are immigrants, largely Eastern European. Property is ridiculously expensive too. I imagine it will gradually become as multicultural as London.

When I lived in Dalston 30 years ago, a visiting friend was confused by the address and numbers. He asked a passerby for help and was told, “Oh yeah, the English people, they live above that shop.”

Our London friends at the time were mainly Irish and Moroccan immigrants, and a couple of Scots and Notherners escaping Thatcher’s grim depressed wastelands. The only London born people I was friends with were Sikh and black or mixed race. The white people from work I was friendly with tended to commute in from Kent or Essex.

Maybe that multiculturalism has now filtered through to the naice bits of London where Mr Cleese hangs out and that’s what is troubling him? But really, it’s been like that a long time.

Because the majority of the population is white?

of course not. The majority of the population (just) is women, do you think they have the power?

drspouse Wed 29-May-19 23:11:44
Are people not white enough for him?
Because most people speak English.

Not where I grew up, they don't.

My niece had issues at school because of the number of kids all speaking turkish. Even the teacher was speaking turkish to them.

Firstly, I simply do not understand how anyone can be 'deeply disappointed' in the tweets of a 79 year old celebrity they've never met. John Cleese is a comedian and was at his peak in the 1970s. Why would anyone expect him to meet their standards of contemporary wokeness?

Secondly, he's not wrong, though anyone expressing even the slightest dubiousness about the alleged wonders of 'diversity' can expect to be called all sorts of names.

My g grandfather Charles moved to Walthamstow in 1896 from Norfolk - the grandchild of European Jewish immigrants himself he looked red haired & pale & sounded as English as anyone plus he'd just converted to Christianity.

The East London of his day had a huge influx of East European Jewish immigrants who were complained about by the Daily Mail & who were often Communists fleeing the Tsar, a minority committed terrorist acts to get their views across!

Watch Casualty 1909 made a few years ago it was brilliant & a real eye opener into how London really was 'in the old days' with immigrant communities sticking together & child gangs stabbing each other.
Not much has changed.....

Re: children speaking no English at 4/5 - my immigrant friends all teach their children their parents language first & know that they'll pick up English very quickly at nursery / primary school / from friends etc. It's normal.
My cousin is half French & spoke nothing but French until she was at school.

John Cleese forgets he's an immigrant too, to a place in the Caribbean I believe?

Wouldn't it be great if multiculturalism worked. I imagine if it did he might not have said it.

“Because the majority of the population is white?

of course not. The majority of the population (just) is women, do you think they have the power?”

Privileged white men are the dominant group in the UK for many reasons. There being a lot more of them than privileged black men is one of them. And undeniable. I suspect the complexities of privilege are not for this thread.

Bloody immigrant children, coming to the UK, learning English and then helping other refugees to do so.....

twitter.com/johnhyphen/status/1133732626316091393?s=21

There are the usual comments here about London and even the rest of Britain always having been 'multicultural'. Unless you take 'multicultural' to mean 100% of the population being natives, that it's true. Even London was over 70% White British in the 1970s. Other towns and regions would have been even more overwhelmingly white. Genetic studies show that the population of Britain remained fairly homogenous for thousands of years, with various settlements and immigrations having comparatively little impact on the gene pool.

So the fact is that British cities have been enormously changed by immigration in the past quarter century or so, which is very very recently in historic terms. Some will like this, some will hate it, others will be in between. You'll find the same throughout Europe, where attitudes towards immigraiton tend to be much more negative than in Britain. Holding a particular view doesn't make you a better or more moral person one way or the other.

Laughing my head off at the comment that Britain was the only colonial bastard. The pp says she has a masters in empire. Really?

Sparklesocks Thu 30-May-19 00:35:24
I really enjoy how diverse London is. It’s a global city and that’s part of its appeal - it’s open to all walks of life.

What about the areas where the culture and community has been completely eradicated by 'diversity'? Or areas that aren't diverse as the people in the area are all mainly from one race? Why is that ok? Where I used to live, there are very, very few English people, or even people for whom English is their first language. Everyone has moved away or been pushed out due to housing factors. Or because they just don't want to live in a ghetto anymore.

drspouse Thu 30-May-19 09:55:31
Mookie apart from those who come to the UK as teenagers, by the time 4 and 5 year olds are in secondary school they will be speaking English just fine, but will be enriched by their fluent second language. No need to panic. Speaking language A before school and language B at school is a perfectly normal situation world wide.

What about the English speaking kids whose education is being affected by the majority of the class not speaking English? Do they not count?

There is no evidence that children are negatively affected by having non-English-speaking children in their class.

Really? I wonder if that is a real no evidence or we haven't looked no evidence.

Must have a google

Probably because there are no studies into it. Unless you're about to produce one, in which case I'm prepared to stand corrected.

Not yet. Just opinion pieces supporting multi lingual classrooms. Which is no surprise

All the researrch so far ishows that kids who are taught in both English and their native language for a long period of time do much better in school. Also not a surprise.

I can't fiind trhe words to get Google to focus on English speaking kids in such classrooms

Well my niece has been. And I presume the 2 other english speaking kids in her class have been too.

Seem to have jittery typing fingers too

What about the social aspect? If there are only 1-3 English speaking kids to a class, what is going to happen to their friendships? And those kids' development?

How do you know how well your niece would have done without the non-English-speaking children?

What we do know is:
New immigrant parents are more committed to their children's education than non-immigrants.
The most important thing in driving school results is how committed the parents are.