Asking dogs to be on leads

[Azuresilver]

My son is scared of dogs. We've done our best to try to get him used to them but he is still scared when they run up to him. Today we were sitting outside a cafe, which is popular with dog owners, it is the only one in our local park. Some people with a dog came to sit at the next table and allowed the dog to run around freely. It came over, sniffing under our table. My son stood up and tried to hide behind my chair. I asked them to keep the dog away, explaining that my son was scared.

They put the dog on the lead rather grumpily. A friend came over with his dog on a lead, to chat to me. The people at the next table then let their dog go (with the lead trailing), so it went straight under our table again. My son again moved away. I looked across and the owner asked me "Doesn't he mind the other dogs?". I ended up apologising, gulping my drink down and leaving with my son (and friend with his well behaved and under control dog).

AIBU expecting people to keep their dogs away from our table in a cafe?

My dog is a nightmare for being over friendly. That’s the reason why in situations where we are around lots of people I have her on a lead.

I'll try and answer / respond to people.

My son's fear being caused by 'poor parenting' - I love animals in general and dogs in particular, as does my older daughter. We have tried hard to get my son used to dogs, and he will now tolerate some dogs that he knows won't jump up at him. He is scared of them barking at him and that they will bite him. He has never been bitten but dogs have jumped up at him and chased him in the past, as he runs when he sees them running and some poorly trained dogs will then chase. Again we have tried to explain why this isn't a good idea, and obviously we don't run when we see a dog, but this is what his instinct is - to run from something scary and potentially dangerous.

We sat outside as there were a number of dogs in the cafe, the only empty table was next to a dog, so instead I sat outside. The people with a dog then came and sat next to us at an empty table.

Asking politely - I did ask politely and even apologetically, but had to do so as the dog had run under our table. I didn't say anything to any of the other dog owners sitting in the cafe, as they were all staying near their owners. Other dogs walked past (on and off lead) or stopped at the drinking bowls left for the dogs, which we were purposely not near.

Getting therapy - we'd hoped to carry on gradually helping our son by explaining why dogs behaved as they did and getting to know some dogs that don't scare him. He has been able to go and see a schoolfriend who had a new dog, after reminding him of the nice dogs he knew. He coped well with the new dog running up to him, which is real progress for him, but I don't think it's unusual to prefer not to have strange dogs running under your table when you are eating and drinking.

I'd like to carry on being able to use the cafe in our park. I do appreciate that they need the dog walking custom, that's why I asked for people's opinions.

I’m a dog lover, but it’s quite simple to me, if a dog is in a public space it should be under control, either on a lead or with excellent recall.

I’ve been bounced a number of times by large, overly friendly, dogs, including being knocked over twice. It doesn’t really bother me as I can recognise the lack of aggression BUT I can see that it could be terrifying for a child or a nervous adult.

Parks aren’t just for dogs, they are for everyone.

Definitely not unreasonable! Some dog owners can just be selfish, they think because their dog is okay with people/other dogs that they can let it wander to anyone it wants, without taking a second to consider how the people being approached are feeling

Yanbu, once they knew your little boy was scared they should have kept the dog on the lead and held on to it. We keep ours on a lead at all times in dog friendly cafe/restaurant/pubs.

YANBU, and it's thought that some people can be genetically predisposed to a fear of dogs, so don't accept blame for your son's phobia.

And tbh it's one of the more justifiable phobias anyway.

YANBU OP.
My dog is kept on lead anytime we are out. He’s a rescue and his recall can’t be trusted. We visit a lot of dog friendly pubs and cafes and he is kept on lead and under our table.
We’ve had a couple times where a rogue dog has come wandering over and have had to ask (and end up telling!) the owner to put it on lead, our dog is old and he doesn’t enjoy other dogs getting in his face - now I’m sure I’ll be jumped on for that and shouldn’t be taking him out of the house etc etc.

I think you were very polite, I would have shouted at them the second time they let it run under our table. Dogs that wander off or dart under other people's tables should always be on leads.

So what if it's a dog friendly cafe? It doesn't mean dogs can be let off leads to go and mingle! Lots of on-lead dogs react aggressively to strange dogs approaching them. The owners are the first to complain when their off lead dog gets attacked or pinned for invading another's space!

I'm very assertive about off lead dogs, partly because my preschooler is scared of them, partly because my parents dog (always leashed) will attack a strange dog who gets in his face. I start with 'Please put your dog on a lead, mine's not friendly/my child is scared' and if they let it off again I get up and return it to them, with a rant about how selfish and inconsiderate they're being.

I have two children. I would never let them go up to someone’s table at a cafe, crawl on their chairs or under their table. It’s about respecting other people’s space.

Similarly, I never ever let my dc approach dogs we don’t know without permission. In fact, I rarely allow them to even ask. It’s horrible behaviour to run up and bother people/dogs you don’t know and it isn’t safe. I expect the same respect of dogs and dog owners not to approach us, jump on us, etc without permission. We’ve had some horrible experiences with aggressive uncontrolled dogs and owners.

We’ve also had a lot more experiences with people who are just inconsiderate. Twice my dd has had a dog run up to her, snatch her lunch out of her hands in a park, and eat it while the owner stood there and watched. Not even so much as an apology or offer to buy her a new lunch (she was about 2-3 at the time). A few weeks ago, in a queue at a fete, I spent 20 minutes repeatedly pulling a dog out of the bags under my 1 year olds pushchair as it nosed around for food and the owner did nothing. I also nearly had a dog snatch food out of my baby’s hand in a pub the other day as it tried to jump up on his high chair. Can you imagine if my child ran over to someone else’s table, sat down, ate their food, annoyed them and I did nothing? There would definitely be a thread on here about it!

It’s incredibly rude. People have no idea if others are allergic or have a phobia or if a child has SEN and might react in an unpredictable way to a strange dog. Or just not everyone likes dogs and wants someone else’s climbing all over them while they enjoy their lunch.

As a dog lover and owner I wouldn't dream of going to a cafe with them offlead. Or anywhere other than the woods and fields I walk them in.Their leads get hooked under the chair leg and they know to tuck themselves under the table.Of course they are curious if another dog comes in but they are told firmly stay and other than a tail wag they do.
I hate it when irresponsible owners let their dogs wander around.It gives other owners a bad name.
Recently outside a pub a man let his big mastiff type roam around.He didn't even have a lead with him.A couple politely warned him their little terrier wasn't sociable and he cheerily replied his dog wouldn't start anything.His dog repeatedly wandered near this couples table and it was like waiting for a bomb to go off. Sure enough the terrier went mental,their table nearly upended and a row ensued.I did think the terrier owners were a bit stupid to expect to relax in a dog friendly pub as it was obviously not happy with any dogs ,even ones on lead and well behaved,on nearby tables.But the mastiff owner was irresponsible and an idiot.

Yes there IS reason dogs should be on Leads at all times actually even in parks if you aren't able to control them approaching people. Just unbelievable....

YABU. There are plenty of dog free cafes, choose one of those in future.

YANBU dogs in leads at all times.

Of course YANBU. Some dog owners are totally potty. Dogs should always be under control, why would people let their dog wander around annoying people? Crazy.

Complain to the staff every time.

I hate it when my son gets shouted at to control himself and his fear reactions around THEIR dog that THEY'VE let jump up at him. He's only 5.

I'm with you op. My son was incredibly scared of dogs and had CBT for it - the fear has recently returned and is extreme however would be lessened if dog owners kept dogs on leads at all times. He is scared at the unpredictable nature of dogs, they do run suddenly and some jump up at him - I know not all but he expects all dogs will jump so is scared. If they are on a lead and under control he knows they can't jump up at him so is much happier.

YADNBU. Dogs should be on leads in eating establishments.

I live in a very dog friendly area (Lake District) and our dog is welcome pretty much everywhere that isn't a supermarket. He's always on a tight, non-extending lead and in cafes and pubs he's always tied to either a tether point provided, to the table or to myself.

He's not aggressive but he's my dog so it's my job to keep him under control. Other people really don't want to be bothered by an excited beagle!

I don't think YABU for wanting them to put the dog on a lead. We have a very friendly boy who often gets cooed at, and would go to say hello if we let him, so he stays on a lead in/outside cafes. It also irritates me when other people let their off lead dogs approach me in cafes - and I'm a dog owner!

If you still had an issue with dogs on leads being around the cafe tables, it would be a different story.

Laiste

The majority is not always right

Had the majority always had its way, women would not have the right to vote, the death penalty would still be legal in most countries and Earth would still be flat.

I'm a dog owner. She's still a puppy, 4 months, and is still jumping on people. Not in a nasty way.....she loves fuss and attention. However, I'm very aware not everyone likes dogs, and also don't want her jumping on vulnerable people like children, or people carrying babies so we're working to discourage this. This does mean keeping her on a leash in most areas. We've got a long leash thing to recall train in the Park, and sometimes let her run in the park but with the leash on so we can step on it and preventing her from going too close to others.

Sometimes because she's a puppy children are interested and want to pet her. I let them, but keep the leash very close to me so she can't jump up and if she shows signs of being over excited, I move her away.

I tbi k your problem is with the café as well as the owners. They need to enforce a strict policy of dogs on leads. If one of their staff had been carrying trays of hot drinks/crockery etc and had been upended, they could have been in serious trouble.

Some dog owners are irresponsible and think everyone should accommodate their pets. One instance when my DS was around 5 years old, he was learning to ride a bike so took him to our local park. He had just got his confidence when a dog came bounding up spooking my son who fell off his bike. The owners response was to say it won't hurt him 😠 My son didn't want to ride his bike for 6 months it caused that much damage. The dog may be friendly, but a small 5 year old just sees an intimidating animal approaching them If a dog carnt control the need urge to approach, or bound up to small children then it should be on a lead regardless of where it is.

To be honest I think the issue could have been avoided by sitting inside. It would be customary for dogs in a cafe to be restrained, so even though there are dogs in there, they're Much less likely to approach your DS.

By sitting outside the cafe you’re risking random off-lead dogs who are in the park more generally approaching you, as well as the other table allowing their dog to roam because they are outside and essentially in the open space of the park rather than the cafe.

I do think the other table were rude but to be honest i’d Probably be a bit at someone who had chosen to sit their dog-phobic DS in an area where dogs roam freely, and to interact with a dog on a lead, who then became upset that a different dog was near their DS. It does seem rather inconsistent

Of course yanbu. I like dogs. I have a dog. I don't want random dogs wandering around my table in a cafe. I don't think you should have to take your ds elsewhere just because others are rude and moreover how would he ever learn not to be scared of dogs if he was kept away from them. Sorry this happened to you.

@Pinkprincess1978 asking dog owners to keep all dogs on leads at all times is a completely different thing though.

OP, YANBU. I always have my dog on a lead in cafes etc - just because I enjoy her company doesn’t mean I expect everyone else to!