To think this event was totally unethical

[Diemme]

A friend of mine is very involved with her church. It has a great community spirit and puts on lots of events - quizzes, talks, cooking demos etc. She's taken me to a few and they've been really good. A member of the congregation is a psychotherapist and offered to put on an event aimed at parents who were struggling with their children's behaviour. I thought it was going to be a presentation and went along. But it turned out to be more like group therapy with everyone sitting in a circle disclosing really personal stuff about their kids. Aggressive behaviour, depression, eating disorders, loneliness, sex etc. Everyone knew everyone and the vicar was present. I was really uncomfortable and couldn't stop thinking about these kids and teenagers at home who hadn't consented to this information being shared and had no idea their parents had gone out for an evening of divulging the most personal areas of their lives in a very public arena. Aibu to think it was a massive error of judgement to allow this to go ahead?

herculepoirot2:
" I don’t know how you know this. But okay. You have one opinion, I have another. I’m leaving it there."

@magicBrenda
"Leave it where you want love."
Why do you need to be so passive aggressive? You really don't need to speak to someone in that manner. hercule is being quite gracious in agreeing to disagree.

FWIW I've come round to the opinion that, particulary in the case of teenagers, we should be careful about disclosing their private information. Having thought about it more I think the group all knowing each other's children and being given their personal info isn't a good thing. Perhaps it's better in a professional or anonymous setting.

In an ideal world where there was no judgement and no-one has any negative traits it would be fine. Life isn't like that though.

Could the 'counseller' be some skeevie git that's trying to generate a bit of income by encouraging people to go and see him privately ie, is it a 'taster session', because it does sound odd.
It gives me an oogie feeling. It's been thrashed out on here and I have read the posts and seen both sides but the oogie still persists and I can't exactly put my finger on why.

It probably was an enormous relief to some people there to be able to talk without being judged - oh hang on you are judging aren't you

You say that as if you think it's a clever insult that's going to make me feel guilty. But yes, I do indeed judge people who betray the trust of vulnerable minors.

The thing is OP perhaps you were just judging others by your own standards? It may not have occurred to any of them to break each others trust and gossip. But here you are on the internet bitching about them all.....

Well indeed missy, and the Op has made her description quite identifiable but that's ok apparently

It is also worth remembering that for religious people gaining emotional support from the church both the lay and clergy members will be quite usual.

It depends. How much is it affecting you? Has he asked you to keep it private?

By this token, the pp is saying discussing our children's problems publicly is OK as long as they haven't explicitly asked us to keep them private, which I think is a totally unreasonable standpoint. This is the kind of thing an abusive parent would hide behind ('Oh, you never said I couldn't tell anyone...') and puts the onus on the young person to be the responsible one exercising some forethought.

More generally, I think it's disingenuous to presume that a brief discussion of confidentially (e.g. 'what's said in the room stays here') is enough to safeguard the privacy and dignity of all involved in a loosely convened meeting between people who also socialise together. Whatever anyone here thinks off the top of their head, I would think that a registered psychotherapist would be subject to guidelines and an ethical framework about this kind of encounter. If not, perhaps they should be. And if they aren't accredited by a recognised body, maybe that needs pointing out to the safeguarding officer at the church and/or diocese (there will be one).

OP, I would try and find out more about this person's qualifications and professional body and see what the guidelines are. Then report to that body if appropriate and/or ask that this kind of situation is considered in drafting guidelines for the future. I don't doubt, as pps have said, that this is kind of thing is very common, but that doesn't make it right.

I go to a big friendly supportive church.

In the last 2 years we (as a family) have had a few issues with our teenagers which we have found really, really hard. For example, dd was struggling with gender identity and we didn't know how to support her. We have recently had something with ds too, which has been really hard to deal with, and doesn't paint him in a good light. Both are mid teens.

Dh and I made a firm decision that we could not share anything about dd and her issues without her consent, nor about ds and what was going on, without his.

We did speak to specific people in private for support, eg the pastoral support worker, who is also a good friend, and I confided in one close friend who also happens to be part of the church.

At a recent meeting about pastoral care, I raised this as an issue, the idea that parents can be struggling with things, but that there is an issue of confidentiality for the teens concerned, and so they might not be able to share about it. It was interesting to see that the room was split right in half.
Half felt that the parents should respect the confidentiality of the kids, and half felt that as a church family, it is OK to share things amongst the family. Those in the second camp just could NOT understand why you wouldn't share your stress with people at church, and that the kids should understand that we care and support each other in this way. In fact one of those people had recently asked me for prayer for her teen who is ill. She said 'he doesn't want us to tell everyone, but we told him the church family support each other this way' I was open mouthed. Your teenage son asked you NOT to share his personal details and you just rode roughshod over his wishes??!!

However as a result of that meeting, I know at least one of the leaders was very challenged by the issue of kids confidentiality. So I felt that was progress!

OnePotMeal

I am, IF there is a proportionate reason to discuss the behaviour. So, as I have said, if the parent feels unable to cope and needs support.

Is it the same therapist from this thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3598986-Therapists-Inevitably-Experience-Erotic-Transference

BUt i understand what you mean the kids have a right to privacy and safeguarding. Parents should be careful about whom they share to and what details, no matter how safe an event might seem....

maybe run it past the NSPCC to see what the official view is of such an event and any safeguarding matter?

An church group run by a trained professional, attended by the vicar which clearly set out expectations about confidentiality at the start is not a child protection issue.
Although each parent there needed to take responsibility regarding how much they felt was appropriate to share about their own family.

^Well, even if the parents know each other, more adults know about these children's individual vulnerabilities and potentially could be at risk...not one can know..even if the event was held in a church full of people of faith, doesn't mean the children are always safe...and those adults could tell other people 'in confidence' things have a habit of spreading I would be very uncomfortable knowing that info of my child was out there and not knowing exactly who knew what

I think that is completely reasonable irishgal I don't think I would share that much either. But it isn't anywhere near a child protection issue.

And also issues of consent, confidentiality and dignity

Contact also www.bacp.co.uk/ to see what they think and check the psychotherapist's credentials

Religion and psychotherapy are a very dangerous mix, it shouldn't be allowed. I bet there was zero safeguarding, who is checking any vulnerable people are safe?

Have churches not learnt any lessons from their years of abuse.

I think the problem is that the learning/awareness might be very superficial- hence why people are quite happy to disregard confidentiality because 'we are all one big supportive family"
I think you have to develop an instinct for safeguarding -which one would hope the therapist or whatever they were would have- but you can't expect the general congregation to have that instinct

It's not the parents doing the sharing I was concerned about. It's the young people, who are every bit as entitled to privacy and confidentiality as adults.

Absolutely.

I have mixed feelings on it, it would really depend on how it was handled and the adults involved. On one hand, I agree teens deserve their privacy and parents sharing everything with anyone - particularly people likely to go spreading hurtful information around - can cause issues and this kind of situation carries risks for them. I also think it should probably have been better advertised/explained as that sort of thing, just hearing others situations, can be distressing as well so it would be better if everyone had known what it was before going in.

On the other hand, I was in group therapy as a kid - both as a teenager through a local church and younger than that at school - and, not surprisingly, a lot of us discussed our parents and siblings. While some of the other kids might not have known them, in the school ones, all the adults in the room certainly did and we shared a lot - violence, addiction issues, cheating and parents fighting about STIs, family members being arrested, finding family members passed out drunk, pretty much any embarrassing thing one can imagine a teen doing, we were discussing our parents or siblings doing and how to cope living with it because we were all well aware further help wasn't coming. That group therapy pretty much saved my life - I've had suicidal ideation from an early age hence why I was there - and I can't begrudge other people from having that space to be able to say my family member is fucking up and it's fucking me up and I don't know what to do about it.

Sometimes that's better with people one knows who can offer practical support rather than a stranger in a group of people you only ever see in that group and knowing none of them can really help you if push comes to shove or worse. Yes, there are risks when everyone knows everyone else and hopefully all the adults involved are responsible enough to keep these sorts of things confidential, but these kinds of spaces are really hard to come by so while I agree there are ethical risks for both the adults and those they were talking about, I think there are plenty of risks ignored when people feel they have no one else to talk to and that in general society has a pretty unethical environment for people needing someone to talk to or help for these kinds of situations so no solution is going to be perfect.

Are you going to report all the parenting courses run by LAs? Are you going to report all the parenting groups run in local communities? Or is it only Church groups you have an issue with?
Somehow I think I know the answer. You may as well drop your faux concern. It would be ethical of you to inform the friend that invited you that you don't want to attend other events with her. She invited you in good faith yet here you are on MN pretending this event is unique and unethical.

I think the difference between a LA run course, where you might share and a church group where you might share, is that the other people on the LA course are not known to your child personally. The problem with sharing on your church's course, is that the other parents will see your kids on Sunday morning, and it puts them and your kids in a difficult position.

But I think there is an important role in funding somewhere where you can safely share. In this case a smaller group of people you trust would have been better.
Even then, clear guidelines about the confidentiality of the group would be important

steppe my friend works in this field. The LA courses run in our area are ones where the parents and children know each other. They recruit the parents from groups that they attend with their DCs.