To be angry about the Oritse Williams rape case?

[prettyinpink23x]

He's been found not guilty today by a Jury.

So many people on twitter are saying 'name and shame the woman, she's lied' 'she deserves a prison sentence'. This is infuriating! Do these people not realise that 'not guilty' does not equate with innocent and it doesn't mean she's lied?

Is it unreasonable for me to be angry about this?

Ah there we go

Incorrect...cos a face says so much!

That’s actually true...you should see mine at the minute

Well said Graphista. I suppose it didn't occur to the PP(s) who spent all day yesterday lecturing and arguing that you may have been busy and didn't have the time to address each poster live.
Describing clear, well written posts as 'ranting' well and truly reveals a person's true misogyny (as if it were not already apparent) as does dismissing that most women have been assaulted. It doesn't always have to even register as we are so used to it (groping in clubs for example) to still count.

Bully for you. I don’t have to engage with any specific poster, particularly one whose only intention appears to be to rant. Agree or disagree with me - I don’t mind.

You obviously cant see the humour in it hercule

I thought maybe you’d done it on purpose but never mind

You don't own the thread, hercule. You don't get to choose what people write or how and you're not expected to engage with everyone, you're either arrogant or personalising everything due to being so invested in the thread.

If you’re not involved in a debate because you were “busy”, there is no sense steaming in and trying to address every point at once in the rudest terms possible. That’s not how you engage with people when you want a response.

Sagradafamiliar

I very much don’t “own the thread”. Nor am I required to reply to everybody, but if I wish to explain why, I’ll explain why.

sagra

Yes ive ‘enjoyed’ graphistas posts, very interesting

Going back to thread

most rapes are dropped because the victim wants to pull out, and then it's because so many are stranger rapes

What was this about...i missed it? I thought most rapes were by men we know

Dorset do you have the link to the figures you quoted yesterday? You didn't address that in your last post, only reiterated that in your opinion graphistas thread was BS.

I think you not backing up what you've said with evidence is undermining the thread. I really want to see what research backs up what you're saying?

Hercule, again, you can't dictate how others engage on a thread.
Like Rufus, I liked Graphista's posts and think they are valid despite you saying 'that's not how it's done'

Rufus That's 3 times I've asked Dorset for a link to that. 3 times she's ignored it.

In London, over half of reported rapes were by someone the woman knows.

I also don't believe that the main reason rape cases are dropped is because the woman drops out. That's why I'd like to see the source.

I think I could be in for a long wait!

Sagradafamiliar

I know I can’t dictate it. I can explain why I am not going to engage, and when others accuse me of lying I can explain again. Which is what I am doing.

"Graphistathose who refer to your posts as 'epic/long/rambly/ rants' can't really argue with anything you've said so they just make a snide comment instead."

^I agree with this, and with what Graphista said generally, particularly "All rapists have parents - it may be very uncomfortable for parents of boys to think about but they do have a responsibility to ensure their sons really understand consent, preferably enthusiastic consent, coercion, pressure etc".

I only know for sure that five women I know, have been raped, many many more will talk about non penetrative
assaults or harrassment. Almost every woman has a #metoo story of some sort, and often what's disclosed is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

If anyone is interested Jeremy vine is debating anonymity for rape victims today

2017-18:
"Rape Crisis specialist services were accessed by 78,461 individuals - an increase of 17% from 2016-17".
rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/rcew-statistics/

Sept 2018
"Number of rape charges at lowest level for 10 years".
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-45650463

March 2018
Research from Glasgow University indicates that as many as 90% of rape and sexual assault victims, know there attacker.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-43128350

I also feel the same OP. Impartial hotel staff noticed the girl was completely drunk/spaced out/not with it at all. So hardly in the right state to be fully consenting. All his pathetic z lister celeb "buddies" most of who kept shtum throughout the case but now hes been found not guilty spouting their mouths off are vile too. Its another very sordid, tacky story all round, he is still not exactly innocent by continuing to proceed with intercourse with a young girl in a completely off her face in a can barely walk state is he.

It’s hard to describe how it feels when you report a rape/sexual assault, the police investigate for 2 years and pass the file to the CPS, who decide that there isn’t enough evidence to prosecute the attacker. DSis and I knew it was likely in our case because of it being historical and the attacker we knew having died (and our F too). Even so, it felt like a kick in the teeth, especially being told that our ID wasn’t enough, because of it having been so long ago and our having been children then.

Even worse was knowing that he was still free to attack again.

Yes, I also can’t imagine anything worse for a decent man than to be convicted of a rape/sexual assault that he’s not guilty of. But considering the benchmark for prosecutors taking a case to court, I imagine there must be very few cases where the accused isn’t guilty. (Their identity is kept anonymous until they’re charged after all.)

I don’t know what the answer is. But surely it’s wrong that under 2% of reported assaults result in a conviction? It’s small wonder that there are a lot more assaults that are not reported?

The process for victims is definitely at least partly to blame as well. Part of me was grateful that I didn’t have to recount what happened to me in court.

Size of the thread has moved on since this discussed.

But, why not have a sex crimes obudsman. Ombudsmen would be fully educated in law, sex crimes and be completely impartial. You could even have a three tear appeal process as you do with the financial ombudsman.

I really don't think the current system works. Someone said earlier that women seem to have a very high bar for what is a punishable assault. I think that's because so many of us have been raped and assaulted and don't want to face up to it. It's easier to believe that it wasn't rape and we reflect that belief onto other women's experiences.

The problem is that the legal system involves people from our society (acting as jury and judges), all of which are affected by biases in our society.

Our current society victim-blames and has a tendency to see women who drink/flirt/spend time alone with men who they are not in a relationship with as “slutty”. There are so many rape myths (she led him on, she was asking for it, many women falsely report rape) that affect the minds of the judges and jury making the decision. A verdict is not just based “on the facts” but on the judge and jury’s interpretation of those facts, which are influenced by our society’s biases.

Sexual education needs a massive overhaul with a big focus on consent and the debunking of rape myths; and rape cases should be tried by 3 judges who have had specialist training and have passed tests to prove they are aware of rape myths and not taken in by them. Only then will we see a drop in actual rapes and a rise in conviction figures.

@firstimpressions sorry I didn’t see your post before I posted - I agree, specially trained people should be deciding these cases, not members of the public who are influenced by the media and general myths perpetuated by our society.

“But, why not have a sex crimes ombudsman”

How about a sex crimes Ombudswoman.

You're so right @ConkerGame

@onefootinthegrave. Apologies, I work so can’t respond to your requests immediately and if my user name isn’t fully tagged there’s no notification.

Hope this link works as not done it before but it was widely reported at the end of April and is very easy to find if you google it...the link below is an overview but the full stats are available from CPS.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-prosecution-england-wales-victims-court-cps-police-a8885961.html