To think people who own more than 3 properties should have a special tax applied to them?

[Calltheguards]

I'm just thinking with the housing crisis, should people really own more than 3 properties? I would assume it's a property portfolio and used to exploit renters. AIBU to think there should be a special tax applied to property owners who own more than 3 properties? Maybe tax them at a really high rate to discourage people from hoarding property.

The next person who says jealous is a poo poo head.

(Because seriously, that's the level of discourse anyone who uses that word in these sorts of arguments is at.)

Lol not all landlords will sell. If you have an AirBnb business with 10+ properties running on fine margins then you might find it's not worth it if they are not let out all the time. If you have 2 properties that you tend to and aren't penalised for then you would probably keep them. The market would cool off a bit with more stock being added by the monopolies being broken in some areas.

I always know when I’m posting on Mumsnet when contribution to society is wrongly equated to wealth. Most essential workers doing jobs that keep society functioning earn far less than middle class desk jobs and yet here we are, on a thread where they are judged as feckless because they haven’t made the “right” choices to enable them to buy a home.

Taxing landlords more, no. Recent changes mean they are now being taxed on a par with other businesses.

Increasing social housing back to 1970’s/‘80’s levels so that a long term social let is available to say 70% of renters would have a massive impact. LHA rents are lower than private landlords and more secure.
That would have a knock on effect on the housing market as many landlords would sell rather than charge LHA levels that wouldn’t cover their BTL mortgage, unless of course they owned the property outright - leaving a real choice for renters and an opportunity to keep their property investment.
The current issue of the government funding private landlords via housing benefit would go quite a way towards funding that.

I’d also like to see a government backed mortgage for average earners. Everyone likes to say, just save up, like it’s possible to get a mortgage for two people earning £18k when a 3-bed terrace is £180k when they’re paying rent as well as trying to save. Moving isn’t always possible either before some smart arse suggests people do that, and most people don’t have parents wealthy enough to assist their adult children.

Too many holiday homes can have a terrible effect on local communities. I come from such a place and in the summer the town is busy, people commute in to do their seasonal minimum wage jobs to service the holiday home owners from 50-odd miles away where they can afford to rent. There should be a percentage cap of houses available to buy as second homes by non-locals but that will never happen, and it’s too late for many places now anyway.

If I was rich I would own property for my kids to live in when they were old enough why should I pay extra taxes for making sure my children are suitably housed?

slippery because generally it's the job of adults to make sure they are suitably housed, not the parents of adults?

Sorry that I, a lowly tax payer, isn't particularly more interested in your children being suitably housed over any other children.

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis yeah we mustn't say jealous but can be called parasites and wankers..... seems reasonable.

boo well if you don't like being called a parasite, why do you assume the other side would enjoy being called jealous?

Be the change you want to see etc.

Landlords are parasites? I don’t usually bite to shit like this but here we go.

As a family we hold four rental properties. Three of which belong to ailing/dead relatives whom we couldn’t afford to sell. The boiler was condemned in one, there was a leak in another and the third was an absolute shithole which needed to be completely gutted; work to make it sellable came to around 10k a property and still the houses were under market value due to the state of neglect.

We had to put our grandparents into care homes and opted for deferred payment due to the fact at the time the houses were in an unsellable state and needed severe work. That tied with the top up charges that were needed for their care meant we had to rent out the houses. For which we are hammered for tax.

My Mother is terminally ill and cannot work thus the little income generated pays her bills and the fees of my grandparents. Half of the sale of these houses will be immediately taken by the council for repayment of fees and on top of that we will be subjected to an inordinate amount of tax and will come out with around 50k for the sale of the houses after work we invested/bills we paid when the properties are emptied etc. That does not include additional fees, solicitors, if house goes below market value, if houses need redecorating etc.

It’s completely uneducated and offensive to landlords with the brush of money grabbing millionaires.

slippery because generally it's the job of adults to make sure they are suitably housed, not the parents of adults?

It’s also nobody’s business what you choose to spend your own money on, @slippery, and how you choose to help your children.

I am a higher rate tax payer, with my DH and mother and Cousin, we own 3 properties.

We have had the same people in two of the flats for 3 and 8 years respectively, we do not put up the rent every year. We put up the rent for the 8 year property at year 6 and will not again, for as long as we can reasonably afford to, whilst the government keeps gouging me.

My mother owns her own home, but was forced out of work as a nurse, due to an injury she received at work. The NHS lost her pension from when she was training (no record of it), so they only have a pension for her from when she went to work with them again, 30 years ago (rather than 45). She needed an investment vehicle and luckily put money away over the years to afford this. She is not a parasite thank you. Even with a share of three properties, she is still a low rate tax payer.

When you talk of empty buildings, you are thinking of those that are owned by companies and overseas investors, maybe instead of taxing the hell out of turnover from landlords (the only business where this happens), maybe, just maybe the government should consider stopping foreign investors from buying properties and leaving them empty here. How outrageous, that they manage to find another way to gouge middle classers rather than conglomerates, I've paid more in tax this year than I believe Amazon or Google. Quite frankly, you should be thanking me, not villifying me.

This post has pissed me off so much, as I've always encouraged my tenants to see the property as theirs and make whatever decoration choices, they wish to. This post makes me wonder why bother? I'm clearly a mug.

Three of which belong to ailing/dead relatives whom we couldn’t afford to sell.

Whoa!

Sirzy Tue 28-May-19 11:26:57
Now something should certainly be done about properties which are sat empty but that’s not a landlord issue that’s a owner issue!

Due to the increase in costs of being a landlord, legislations, and standards that have to met, as well as increase in rights of tenants that trash properties and don't pay their rent - expect more empty properties. Many people that own a few properties are finding its not worth the agg anymore.

Where we live, there are people living in tents under the boardwalk on the beach. Houses on our street could be eight bed hmo's. Its too much trouble though to rent to all those people. If they all decided to not pay their rent, apparently the council would fund them to fight in court re evicting them as they 'have rights'.

Fuck that for a laugh. The mortgage still needs to be paid. Where does that money come from?

Once someone defaults on their rent, that should be able to be termed as breach of tenancy and the eviction process allowed to be started - NOT the tenants be allowed to drag it all out for months and months in court, all the while not paying rent.

Until this is stopped, and landlords get some rights back, I think more and more properties are going to sit empty.

rent seeking isn't a productive endeavour. You're not creating anything that wouldn't be there anyway. There are significant opportunity costs to people owning multiple properties

Yes people can do what they want with their money but if there's anything we can do to encourage people to put their resources into enterprise, into the future, into genuine innovation, then we should be doing it
Well said
⭐🏆⭐

Oh also on the tube recently there are a lot of ads from different companies inviting small investors to get involved in property market.

My assumption is that the small investors money is put together and the company invests the money in property

But

Would an investment company of this nature be interested in letting and all that goes with it, or will they leave empty with a view to capitalising on increased property prices, as foreign investors were doing in central London previously?

I have concerns about this impact of this as well. Its new, last year none of these ads, this year some carriages about 1/4 of the ads are for this!

This is not jealously speaking is concern.

Same as my previous posts about issues with short term lets around avoiding the rules / effect on communities.

Yes I could sell at a loss but why should I? If I can rent it out until the market improves, reduce my mortgage and avoid £50k loss them why shouldn't I? And we couldn't live in either house because they weren't big enough and frankly can afford to live in a house big enough for our needs. You seem to be implying that I should live in a house too small for my needs so that someone else can live in one big enough for their needs. Crazy shit. I'm not asking for sympathy, I acknowledge I am fortunate. But that's because I work hard to cover our housing needs and the shortfall on the 2 houses. Not all landlords are greedy parasites exploiting the needs of those less fortunate. And as far as the maintenance goes, I do far above and beyond what I should do. Cos I'm not a parasite!

Most essential workers doing jobs that keep society functioning
These are the people doing the real important productive work, and yet society is structured such that they struggle to find a decent place to live

I’m a renter. I really grateful to my land lord for my excellent home where I don’t have to do any maintenance and pay less than I would if I were paying a mortgage (not to mention all the flexibility of not being tied to a property). My ll has a huge portfolio which allows them to rent houses at a more competitive rate. What you are suggesting would punish renters by driving prices up and decreasing the number of proper commercial ll and increasing the number of BTL ll (who generally are a bit of a pain to rent from in comparison).

because generally it's the job of adults to make sure they are suitably housed, not the parents of adults?

I'll spend MY money how see fit! If I want to buy or give my DC properties I will. I'll also do it in a tax efficient manner to avoid paying unnecessary IHT.

I own numerous properties, I like to think I’m a good landlord. I pay highest rate tax, less and less expenditure is allowed to be discounted before tax calculated. It provides an income and there will be some capital gain (also taxable obviously)

However I think that there should be some kind of wealth tax or a higher rate of income tax - it’s not right that we pay the same rate as those on £150k when our income alone is multiples of that

@Calltheguards What property do you own?

Contrary to what many people believe on here, owning rental property has become much less appealing to private landlords, due mainly to the new tax laws.

Many landlords are selling up, or plan to in the near future. Given the nature of supply and demand, I believe rents will then go up further.

It's highly unlikely that central or local government will build anything like the amount of social housing that will be required -there just hasn't been the political will there since Margaret Thatcher deliberately sold off the housing stock so government were no longer responsible for the housing that already existed in her day.

I think the housing crisis will get much worse in the next few years, and the rental property that is available will be a lower standard as there will be less competition.

I don't know what the solution is, but it isn't going to be solved by pushing out private landlords now, and making rental property so unappealing.

titchy

Errrr somewhere for people to live?

I don't have an axe to grind with landlords, but lets not pretend or even imply that landlords are landlords for anything other than reasons that benefit themselves.

@MaryMcarthy but that’s really not true. I can’t buy in cash at the moment and I don’t want to buy a property with a mortgage for obvious reasons. If it weren’t for my land lordproviding a service I want I’d be forced to make a finically disastrous bargain just to have somewhere to live. But thanks to my LL instead of throwing away money on interest I get to invest my money in things that matter like education and our family business. The rental market provides accommodate and also frees up capital for investment. It’s invaluable to having a mobile workforce and to ensuring that people have the liberty to live how they want. You really haven’t thought it through. For middle class renters it’s a question of financial freedom.

@BoneyBackJefferson what does motive matter when both parties benefit?

They already pay capital gains tax and tax on any earnings. 🙄