To think people who own more than 3 properties should have a special tax applied to them?

[Calltheguards]

I'm just thinking with the housing crisis, should people really own more than 3 properties? I would assume it's a property portfolio and used to exploit renters. AIBU to think there should be a special tax applied to property owners who own more than 3 properties? Maybe tax them at a really high rate to discourage people from hoarding property.

WinterWillow good on you, I agree. Just go in eyes open to the unfavourable tax treatment, the risks, the work involved and possibly the fact that you may well be borrowing to invest (called gearing which is considered extremely high risk). It aint all beer and skittles.

Yes its luck. Its very easy to say you got yours through your hard work and determination and you would have succeeded in any possible world due to the strength of your character. The fact is, most people who are not born privileged aspire to better. Many will work hard for it. The vast majority will not achieve this. Most people who are born privileged maintain that privilege. Mere statistics tell you about social justice. Inequality stats in the UK are horrific and getting worse. The 'American dream' of hard work always pays off is a myth. This myth is sold so that we vote in a way that protects privilege (on the basis that the voter could work hard enough and join the ranks of the rich). The sad fact is that politicians on the right have been using this idea, together with scare mongering about immigrants, for years to get the poor to vote in ways that actually mitigate their own best interests. Its unbelievably depressing.

beardy well said.

A PP upthread said a landlord owning 1 property is okay but not one owning 100. So what is the difference between 100 single landlords and 1 multi? It's still 100 houses rented and not owner occupied! And surely a landlord with 100 properties and a network of tradesman that is able to spread the risk, empty properties etc is better. With 100 landlords your much more likely to have a few "parasites"!

Everanewbie Q: "I’m sure many can’t help it and very sympathetic to those in need but before calling those that invest in housing to provide a service to those that can’t buy houses"....

Provide a service? How very altruistic of you!

Teacupdrama 12:10:34
Your list of rights and responsibilities. Pretty fair and comprehensive!

ChickenPie I have less of an issue with a corporate LL as I do understand that private renting has its place; it's the amateur 'ave a go LL, of whom there appear to be many on here, I have a problem with.

And no, it's not 'jealousy'. I could also own more than one BTL but I don't because I think effectively depriving someone of a first time home they could well afford the mortgage repayments on by BTL it is immoral.

There are already rules about providing a certain standard of accommodation to rent out.
If you look on BBC there is a short video about people who lived in poor standard housing. It was reported, an inspector arrived & improvements were made via the landlord.

There are people who rent out sheds in back gardens in cities
There are people who don't pay tax on rental income
There are people who squeeze 30 people into a small property

There are people who drive cars with no tax, MOT, insurance, drive faster than the speed limit
Some people don't care !

Aren’t we all fortunate to have “luck” drag our asses out of bed and to work in the morning.

What crap.

Fox... Necessary and sufficient conditions. Hard work, determination, resilience, etc are almost always necessary conditions to rise above the situation you were born into. Without these you more than likely wouldnt suceed (though you could win the lottery, so strictly necessary all of the time). They are not sufficient. To ensure success you need to work hard, but you also need to be lucky. Its not hard! Work on its own wont guarantee your success. Plenty of people work hard. It is work plus luck that issues in success. That is, unless you inherit huge sums.

fox you don't consider yourself lucky not to have a severe physical disability that prevents you from working?

You don't consider yourself lucky to have sufficient intelligence to hold down a reasonable paying job?

You don't consider yourself lucky not to suffer a debilitating mental illness?

Why not? Did you work hard to ear the genetic code you were born with too?

There are people working far FAR harder than you everyday....but because they didn't get born into a fantastic 1st world country they are working their asses off sifting through trash heaps in Malaysia (your trash by the way - not their own) and they face a daily fight to avoid being raped or having their children raped by the scumbags that run the dump. Do you really think the reason they don't own property in the UK (and never ever will) is because they don't work as hard as you?

fox and yes (in case it wasn't clear) you ARE fucking luck to be able to drag yourself to work that is not only fairly paid but safe everyday...because there are any number of people on these boards who would kill for that.

@M3lon
They wouldn’t need to go to the lengths of killing for it if they just got up off their own arses and did it. Seriously very few people are genuinely not employable!

Sorry was this thread about Malaysia or the UK? I might have answered differently had I known we were discussing Malaysian landlords....

Miljah I didn't say that, someone else's quote.I'm the person arguing that residential property as an investment is risk, illiquid, inefficient for tax and most people would be better off elsewhere. Plus I feel large scale btl is morally dubious and should be further hammered by the tax man, but have no beef with those who btl, we will all do what we think is best for us and our families, especially when opportunity knocks.

@Foxmuffin - @M3lon was just saying that luck has a lot to do with how things pan out. Being born in UK is huge luck in itself (compared to all the other countries out there). Being of healthy body and mind is also luck.

Current house prices mean that the threshold of luck to own a house is raised. Lucky people often don’t appreciate how lucky they are.

@Namenic

Luck and fortune have a role to play, but to say luck alone gets you to work in the morning is a bit far fetched.

Current house prices mean that the threshold of luck to own a house is raised. Lucky people often don’t appreciate how lucky they are

Would that apply to the people who laughed at others working 6 jobs to get on the housing ladder and who are now stuck in the same rented house watching the “lucky” people they laughed at years before moving forward with their lives.

People talk about working harder but ultimately it is about working smarter.

Eg. Dd works on one of her jobs, a zero hours contract for a company where she can pick and choose her hours and days she works.

The company have offered her a ft job but

1. If she works 3 days per week atm she would out earn what the company are paying.

1. Atm she chooses her hours so she tends to go for the 1pm - 1am shifts as she hates getting up in the morning.

She can work 5am-1am with some other jobs she does With this job it is strictly 9-5 and to get there she would have to get up at 7am

3 They tried to sell it as a career where she could get promoted and be very soon earn £1000s more.

Dd did sit down to work out what she would come out with per hour.
By the time she added in travel costs, the hours travelling, the fact that she would then get taxed on her salary and not be able to put anything against it (like the train fare, parking, petrol etc). That they don’t feed you (the shifts she does usually include food) and she would have to buy/make lunch.
And more importantly that she would be tired after doing a 55 hour week where she would only be paid for 40 hours with no tax off sets made it financially not viable.

The problem is people jump at the chance of a ft job and don’t look at the actual hours you have to spend on the job (not when you are actually doing the job but the amount of time getting to and from the job)
They don’t look at other things you have to pay out to stay in the job, eg lunches, coffee, clothes, travel costs.

I think people don’t actually sit down and calculate what they are actually earning per hour.
If they did they would probably find working in their local supermarket paid more.
Less travel in both cost and time, uniform provided and a perk of a staff discount.

People actually

Sorry pressed too soon

I have seen on here people going for promotions and climbing the corporate ladder.
But what does that mean in terms of pay and hours.

I am getting the impression they will be expected to be doing more hours for a higher salary that will mean the rise will be more tax, NI etc deducted and more hours to work.

Eg if someone was on £40,000 per year but did a strict 9-5 job they would be earning after deductions (tax and NI, no pension) £14.77 per hour

If they were to get a promotion and salary increase of £5000 but would be expected to work an extra hour at the end of the day there salary would actually reduce to £14.58 per hour.

I think people do sleep walk into things and it would do no harm in sitting down and actually working out what you are actually earning rather than saying people are lucky

There ultimately is no such thing as luck. It is about making the best and most informed choice of your personal situation.

I have seen people born into the most horrifically circumstances who pull themselves up and I have seen people born into privilege who take it all for granted and let everything slip through their fingers.

@Oliver your daughter sounds sensible. But is she really factoring in everything. Is she factoring pension contributions? Paid holidays? Sick pay, should she need it? Maternity? Whether the company might allow her flexible working, but keeping her benefits etc, when she returns from mat leave. 'Compensation' should beso much more than pay per hour.

Obviously being self employed will mean that she doesn’t get paid holidays but the number she goes on wouldn’t fit into the 20 days of holidays the company allow.

In fact she is looking to buy abroad in the next few years.

Eventually her idea is to rent out places and or do Airbnb type lets that are run by people/companies in the vicinity.
So it won’t matter whether she physically works or not as she will have an income.

If you own more than 10 pairs of shoes should there be a special tax? Are these people hoarding their shoes, they can't wear them all at once?

Renting out houses is a business. Just like renting a room in a hotel. BTL LL pay a lot of tax. If there were no BTL LL there would be an even worse housing crisis.

There are plenty of houses out there to buy. There is no shortage, just look at Rightmove. The problem is that some people cannot afford the deposit for a mortgage and/or have too many other outgoings to meet strict lending criteria.

You sound very jealous and not very bright.

@caring bad analogies and insults. Clearly youve won the point.

I agree. I don’t think essential services should be run for profit.

That’s housing, utilities and public transport. All are essential and should be paid for at cost.

fox so do you deny the existence of people with mental and physical disabilities or is is that you don't consider it luck that it is something they suffer and not yourself? Maybe you think they deserve it?

If you end up with houses being sold at cost, you would end up with lots of identical little boxes crammed into the smallest spaces possible, no point in doing otherwise because there would be no reason to make them better. Sounds like North Korea to me.