To think people who own more than 3 properties should have a special tax applied to them?

[Calltheguards]

I'm just thinking with the housing crisis, should people really own more than 3 properties? I would assume it's a property portfolio and used to exploit renters. AIBU to think there should be a special tax applied to property owners who own more than 3 properties? Maybe tax them at a really high rate to discourage people from hoarding property.

I think I’m a martyr for providing decent housing to tenants who can’t get mortgages because of their income/CCJs/taste for lavish holidays and cars...

@Kazzyhoward if you make 30k, your monthly repayment would be £30 and some change. That's imho worth it it for a person who would have 18-20k wage without the diploma.
Understandably Uni is not for everyone. After my outrage about course prices for non degree qualifications I had a look at advance learner loan and it looks like you can do Level 3+ qualifications with colleges, even distance study and cover it with that. Same point with repayment.

Agree on interest. Should be MUCH lower. Only about 15% of people actually repay their loan btw.

There are plenty of ways to obtain qualifications and better oneself, not just traditional uni. It’s a false objection for people who can’t really be bothered to make an effort to improve their lives but enjoy complaining about those that do. It could be argued that those who live off housing benefits are parasites. I’m sure many can’t help it and very sympathetic to those in need but before calling those that invest in housing to provide a service to those that can’t buy houses, whether they are available or not, and already pay significant taxes into society, maybe think about the names you call these people given those living mainly on benefits live off these peoples’ taxes. Sorry if this sounds harsh but those who throw stones etc.

sb74

The world is very simple from your viewpoint, isn't it?

There are many people who have been massively turned off the education system and the middle class lifestyle in general because of being treated unfairly by teachers etc (my dad is one of them, he was treated as if he was a total idiot at school and even now at 65 hates the thought of ever being in any sort of classroom.)

There are people who are working their arses off doing manual labour all day every day who don't have the time or money to 'better oneself' (horrible phrase that absolutely shows what you think of people not of the same standing as you.)

Some people are simply happy living a simple life. I am university-educated and have a decent job, but spending my days with people who look down their noses at anyone they consider below them makes me seriously wish I had just not bothered.

I don’t look down my nose at anyone but it you’re not prepared to put effort in to improving your standard of living and others are then don’t complain about it. This thread is an example of that.

I don’t understand anyone who doesn’t want to strive for a better life, personally. If people don’t want that fine but don’t begrudge those that do.

I didn’t enjoy school much either but I’ve just got with it. Again excuses. I understand people have different levels of drive and motivation etc and that fine, of course, but again, don’t knock and try to penalise those that have put a huge amount of effort in to having what they have.

,... also I’ve not had an easy ride at all, So, no, the world isn’t simple to me. Ive overcome many obstacles and difficult situations to achieve a good standard of life. Don’t make assumptions on people you know nothing about.

sb I think you know that not everyone can 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps'. That is a total lie that is perpetuated by the wealthy. There will ALWAYS be an underclass, that is how capitalism functions. If we ALL work hard at school and we all ACHIEVE, who is going to be the cleaners, the service workers, the minimum wage workers? It's not possible for EVERYONE to be middle class.

I have not made any assumptions about you, I have pointed out your simplistic and flawed thinking. Plenty of people who 'haven't had an easy ride' (which, by the way, is what everyone thinks of themselves) have this 'I did it, so why can't everyone else' attitude.

My thinking is not flawed at all. I completely understand what is needed to function and have stated the same in previous posts. Please don’t insult my intelligence by saying you really think these people don’t exist. Able, intelligent people who complain about others but do nothing to help themselves. There’s plenty of them around. I understand some do not have the ability either mentally or physically to strive for more but there are many that do but choose not to. Many low paid jobs now are filled by Eastern Europeans from what I’ve seen but my point is if you are an able person but do nothing to better your life (which is what I meant) then don’t complain at those that do.

Some people ARE more motivated and more successful as a consequence.

On the face of it I’m a successful lawyer, but my husband who got a crap degree because he’s not at all academic is so driven and motivated that he has achieved far more than me and frankly far more than I would have (or will) because I wouldn’t have made the sacrifices he did. I worked bloody hard to get to where I am but he’s worked harder.

There is an element of choice. It’s not all luck. Some people won’t take responsibility for themselves. We’re a generation of whingers and whoa is me.

sb74 where did I say those people don't exist?

The vast majority of people are not like that, however. That is a lie that has been perpetuated for years in this country.

who is going to be the cleaners, the service workers, the minimum wage workers

Cleaners have an amazing earning potential. Service workers. Care is ridiculously underpaid, it needs changing, but if you talk about hospitality. Well, that's a starting job. Waitress - superviser - manager. If it's not available in the same workplace, change workplace. Not that hard and no qualifications needed.

I agree that not everyone wants to move up the ladder and that's fine. It's their life and they don't have to if they don't want to, but then they shouldn't moan, as @Sb74 said.

You alluded to it. There are many people like that?? We are are British, moaning and begrudging those that do better is in the DNA of many. We are well known for it. My dad, as much as I love him, is an example of it. Living a life he’s not been happy with but does absolutely nothing to change it. The mere suggestion that he is in control of his own life and could change if he wanted is met with hostility and disbelief. I’ve met plenty of people who do not take responsibility for their own life and feel as though it’s been done to them. It does require desire, drive and determination to change things and not everyone can be bothered. Ok. So don’t moan then.

Pretty disingenuous suggesting there is a binary choice between savings in the bank and a BTL property. There is a world of investment opportunity out there.

If any one suggested you should borrow money to invest in a share (gearing) most people would say you'd have lost your marbles, but that is what you are doing with a BTL. Gambling on the property not costing you more money, tenants paying an income, the asset keeping pace with inflation etc. etc. It is definitely not without risk. Peoples perception is a little skewed on BTLs due to the boom in prices since 2009 and the generous tax regime that is rightfully being reigned in, allied with historically low long term interest rates. I would strengthen the taxation further, but not out of jealousy or envy, but an effort to re balance the market in favour of the first time buyer rather than the investor. Property should be seen as a home first and an investment last, and professionals who know what they are doing in terms of being a good land lord.

As I mentioned up thread, I harbour no ill feelings towards individuals that have seen an opportunity with a generous tax regime and taken advantage of it. I have no kind words though for the riposte of 'should have worked harder, should have tried harder at school' attitude to people who have not had the advantages or luck to be in such a position.

Cleaners have an amazing earning potential

Ha ha, that's hilarious. There are VERY few cleaners earning 'amazing' money.

Do people really not see that some people work hard every day of their life and never get anywhere? They are FULLY justified in moaning. The rich and poor divide gets wider every day in the UK (one of the widest in western Europe) so OF COURSE there are ALWAYS going to be people stuck at the bottom.

Painting them as feckless layabouts who just can't be arsed so therefore should STFU is bloody unconscionable.

"It does require desire, drive and determination to change things and not everyone can be bothered."

Yes, and tons of people have desire, drive and determination kicked out of them from day one.

Good for you for working hard. I also worked hard and have done way better than most people in my peer group. But I'm not so blind as to see that not everyone is as lucky as me to have that desire and determination.

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis you may laugh, but I know number of self employed cleaners who are doing well and have reached mortgage acceptable wages and more. Amazing may have been wrong word though. Sorry.

buying up property so others cannot access it

Properties are advertised on the open market.
There isn’t a secret website where only BTL landlords can access it.
Properties are advertised but as a ftb a few tips I would offer are

1. Make your mind up before it is sold to someone else.

1. You are never going to get perfection

And

1. Remember you are not buying your forever home.

I have bought a property because it was cheap and nasty. It had loads of viewings by FTBs but they turned there noses up at it.
Nothing other than a strong stomach, a skip and a load of bleach didn’t sort out.

We worked sometimes up to 6 jobs to get us our first very grotty flat whilst friends looked on in amusement from their 3 bedroom council properties.

Years on our plan is to sell up. Buy a bigger property in the UK and another abroad.
Same friends call us lucky because we can afford to do that and they are still in the same house paying rent.

Is this what people mean by being lucky.

Properties are advertised on the open market.
There isn’t a secret website where only BTL landlords can access it

Is that really what access means to you?

So you’re “lucky” to have desire and determination?
Really? That’s luck?

Love the irony that cleaners and well paid workers are necessary but landlords aren’t by the same token...

If any one suggested you should borrow money to invest in a share (gearing) most people would say you'd have lost your marbles

But property isn’t like shares.
You are buying land/bricks an actual tangible asset not a piece of paper with a hypothetical worth.

If the share plummeted your bit of paper would become worthless.
If property plummeted it would still have a potential worth.
You can still go to it and live in it or you could let it out to bring you in income.

Shares and housing as investments are not the same.

fox in part, yes. It is something that is innate or given to you by your parents. Obviously not everyone has it.

Landlords are necessary. Landlords who own five or six houses are not.

*Properties are advertised on the open market. There isn’t a secret website where only BTL landlords can access it

No, no secret website, but every other house advertised in my area states it is let as a HMO boasting its yearly rental turnover, which is usually over 24-30K a year. If there are renters already in situ, no ftb is going to touch that house with the risk of them not moving out and other issues, and also, the fact that the sellers may only prefer to sell to btl buyers.

every other house advertised in my area states it is let as a HMO

If it's large enough to be a HMO then it's hardly likely to be a cheap starter home for a FTB is it?

Oliversmumsarmy investing in any asset is fundamentally the same. Any asset provides an income (dividend from shares, rental income from property) and hopefully growth, i.e. the share price increases, the house price increases. All being rosey, you get your total yield from a mix of regular dividends/rent and and asset growth.

So, if a company performs badly, the dividend is reduced or not payable. If you have a crap tenant your rent isn't received. Pretty direct parallel.

Next, a property can reduce in value. 2008 being a classic example. Property prices go down as well as up, as do shares. Sorry, without googling the figures to be exact, but from memory equities have been the best performing asset class in something like 110 of the last 120 years.

Losses are only losses on a share if you sell when the price is down, likewise a property.

The principles of both are exactly the same.

Oliversmumsarmy in theory the risk of a complete insolvency is less with a BTL than an share in a company, conversely the potential rewards are much, much higher. But then again, what if you go bust, and the bank comes calling for your property? Then it is next to worthless. In practice a sensible investor wouldn't own shares in one company but diversify across asset classes, geography, capitalisation etc. so the risk of a total loss is probably greater with your BTL than my diversified portfolio of investments. Plus i'll get no call from my fund manager at 2am telling me that a roof tile has blown off, or his neighbour is smoking weed in the garden.