To think people who own more than 3 properties should have a special tax applied to them?

[Calltheguards]

I'm just thinking with the housing crisis, should people really own more than 3 properties? I would assume it's a property portfolio and used to exploit renters. AIBU to think there should be a special tax applied to property owners who own more than 3 properties? Maybe tax them at a really high rate to discourage people from hoarding property.

I actually agree with you that reform is desperately needed to make buying more affordable, and a bigger range of mortgage products should be encouraged to increase access to mortgages.

But typecasting ‘banks’ and ‘landlords’ as evil profiteers won’t help anyone

@Family4F0rtunes I am so sorry🙈 It's still not working. Showing error 404. There are good stories. It's a great scheme! No house should just lie there rotting away. But they really need to think about the issues around next time.

I actually agree with you that reform is desperately needed to make buying more affordable, and a bigger range of mortgage products should be encouraged to increase access to mortgages

Reform is needed, but what more mortgage products can banks give? All do 95% mortgages and I don't think it's safe to move to normal 100% in large numbers.

@M3lon I feel like I’ve made everyone really miserable, I’m sorry! Whether the entire economic system collapses or not depends on our ability to expand our aggregate supply and diversify the economy effectively enough to cushion single industries against this by building safeguards and insurances. China are an example of a country who do this by artificially devaluing their currency, to give them a falsified trading advantage with the rest of the world - this maintains a large line of credit that enables them to deliver goods and services to their people.

China is a country where there is a housing crisis too, but their response to build more houses has resulted in whole ghost cities being constructed with no populations. Sometimes the issue is not the supply of something in numerate terms, but rather the effectiveness of connecting the good/service to demand. Global hunger is a good example of this: we have more than enough food in the world to ensure everyone gets their nutritional requirements, yet people starve. It’s a logistics issue. We can treat the housing crisis similarly. People can’t access affordable housing stock where they need to live for employment? We can change the terms of employment by encouraging companies to allow people to work from home, or invest in services in these less desirable places, or provide tax breaks to companies willing to move to those areas. Now this, as I’m sure you’ve spotted, is another run away train — because in turn, the house prices will increase in these places. Economics is all about constantly adapting, and it’s something we’re rather good at and will likely manage to do.

When did we go past the point of no return? Probably after WWII. We started artificially engaging with the economy in more widespread ways through the creation of fiscal and monetary instruments that were likely always going to lead to problems. However, we’re human. When faced with the potential suffering of many, we will generally do what we can to avoid it because we think in the short to medium term.

I own lots of properties. I pay a fortune in tax which they are more than welcome to. I also keep rent low and I'm delighted when my tenants leave my property to get on the housing ladder. I'm providing a service to people who need it.

Nobody will be able to buy property in the future in UK if all the jobs keep disappearing recent examples
Car factories
High street ships
Steel works
Coal mines
Restaurant chains

There need to be retraining programmes available. DWP looking at you
It's normal that some jobs dissapear and new appear but people MUST get a chance to retrain so they can move onto different or that new industry.

@Llandord

Sorry but we’re going to have to ask you to leave. You’ll need to leave the keys to your rentals too and we’ll dish them up to MN’ers starting threads like this.

@Foxmuffin

Apologies I forgot my place in life. Landlords get treated worse than the devil on MN

There need to be retraining programmes available. DWP looking at you

Good luck with that, Juror ... given the track record of most DWP initiatives, I wouldn't want to rely on them for something of that much importance

@Puzzledandpissedoff it's bad. I wanted to take some courses to retrain and in the end uni was actually most financially viable otion because all good courses are so expensive and not under student funding.
Like CIPD for level 3 is 2.5k!😮 Electrician 7k!
Disgraceful. Especially when it's needed for people from dying industries.

people my age struggle to buy even small/starter homes because many are being hoarded by older people who bought when property was cheap

Property has never been cheap. Cheaper maybe, but the overwhelming majority of older people own one house, which they live in. But presumably you would prefer they gave that to you?

Parasites, OP? That’s a bit of a generalisation, isn’t it?

I have a rental property. It’s a small flat I bought for my sister in 2001 to help her out. She couldn’t get a mortgage nor find a social rented place. So I took it out in my name and she covered the mortgage payments and other direct bills.

Fast forward nine years, she had four kids and the flat was too small. It was also in negative equity and it didn’t make sense for me to sell it. She moved out and, being a money-grabbing parasite bastard, I rented it to a lovely couple for significantly less than other similar flats. This was eight years ago. Guess how often I’ve put the rent up? Not once. Why? Because my mortgage is on a long-term fix and I don’t need to increase the rent to cover my costs.

And, yes, I declare it to HMRC but I have next to no tax to pay as I don’t make a profit.

When the couple eventually move out, I’ll sell the flat take the profit. And I’ll feel that I deserve it.

Perhaps you could be a little less sweeping with statements in future? Just sayin’

Okay so... I own four properties, two of which I rent out to students at an extremely low rate for the area but enough for me to turn a small profit. I chose to do so because I was horrified at the rates for students in my town and figured it would be a good way to invest my money.
One is my own home, the other is a commercial property I let out to two local charities as an office at basically no profit whatsoever.

Tell me exactly why I should pay some kind of special tax?

Well, obviously you shouldn't. You should be given a special chair made out of baby Jesus's hair secured with the tears of orphans and crowned king of all humanity.

I have a friend who recently set up her own business , lots of photos on social media, lots of local support. The business seems to be doing well & I'm very pleased for her

In contrast I've invested in a property to rent out, that I bought from savings out right. No social media. Nobody congratulating me, how well I've done

I expect that we have probably invested a similar amount of time, effort & money

One good
One bad ?

This discussion has been on MN several times. It's never going to change
All landlords are despised, even the lovely ones...

You sound jealous. And I say this as someone who owns zero properties.

People aren't out to "exploit renters". It's a business. To make money. You can barely expect to not have to pay to live in a house.

Leveraged Buy to Let (or Borrow to Leech as it can also be quite accurately described) creates it's own demand and doesn't provide an ''essential service'' at all.

Every house bought as a BTL is depriving a FTBer or other owner occupier from buying a place of their own.

Every house bought as a BTL is depriving a FTBer or other owner occupier from buying a place of their own.

Could you explain how? How would a BTL purchaser displace a FTB?

Well to start with they have access to better mortgage deals, including IO, so can borrow more and are often willing and able to pay more, so can often outbid buyers with residential mortgages.

Mortgage rates are actually higher for BTL, they need to put down larger deposits, they need to pay an additional 3% stamp duty. They can get interest only but this does not mean additional,borrowing, they have to have sufficient income to from the rental to provide the lender with security. The larger deposits means the loans are restricted to a lower loan to value.

Any thing else?

It's cheaper by just the stamp duty alone and deposit required for a FTB to purchase.

@jemihap what better mortgage deals are they given access too? I'd love to know, I've not seen a BTL deal better than a residential mortgage rate. Are you CeMap qualified or are you just spouting envious nonsense which just isn't true?

@Calltheguards

How is it good for the environment for an individual to own more than 3 homes? What benefit are they providing for society? They are essentially a parasite and should be taxed as such.

This is too funny for words, have you actually been to school? Or even understand economics?

Govt should build more houses (in places that need it). In places that don’t need it, govt should think of ways eg transport to make it more attractive.