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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that “Irish twins” is an offensive term?

418 replies

CroissantwithCheese · 25/05/2019 12:49

I read a thread on an American pregnancy forum about the term “Irish twins”. The OP posted some gushing statement hoping she was pregnant and that it would mean she had Irish twins. A commenter said it was offensive and I deeply agree. It was an idiom apparently created in the US in the 1800s, referring to the large families of Irish immigrants. It was derogatory, stereotyping the Irish for not having any sort of family planning and not using contraception. But this was hardly their fault as the church had banned contraception. The term has now become some sort of cutesy way of referring to two children born within a year of each other, and seems to be completely accepted. How can that be accepted and not considered offensive?!

OP posts:
magicBrenda · 25/05/2019 14:27

Yup - when a pregnancy is announced, the first to be congratulated is the MAN! 'Ah fair play to ya Tony!' 'You've still got it!' grin

Yes!! 😂😂

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:28

We're a fertile bunch alright. Must be all the spuds. Wink

SpamChaudFroid · 25/05/2019 14:28

Jedward Grin

I've never heard of it either and I'm half Irish.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 14:29

@Intothe

You are the broken record 😴

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:29

No - @MyBlueMoonbeam - YOU'RE the carcass!

MarDhea · 25/05/2019 14:30

Oh for fuck's sake, of course it's an offensive stereotype and shouldn't be used by anyone who cares the slightest about denigrating others.

I am Irish. Never heard the phrase at all in Ireland for the first 20-something years I lived there. Heard it for the first time from a colleague when living in the UK, in reference to an English women who had babies 10 or 11 months apart, and I was gobsmacked that anyone thought it was an acceptable phrase to use. I've heard it a handful of times in Ireland since then, usually when taking the piss out of someone (such as a cousin who announced her second pregnancy when she had a 4-month old baby).

But outside Ireland talking about someone who is not Irish, it's exactly the same form of wrongness as the phrase "working like a black", which I also heard people use in a group conversation when living in the UK. When pulled up on it by a friend, who said something very mild like "you can't really use that an expression like that", the rest of the group jumped on her with all the defensiveness and platitudes I've seen on this thread.

  • It's not meant to be offensive.
  • Don't be so sensitive; what a silly thing to get worked up about
  • My black friend says it all the time and he thinks it's fine
  • It's based on history so it's accurate
  • It's a compliment really (about how hard black people work)
Hmm

No, it's still a bigoted phrase used in ignorance and complacent privilege!

Irish people using the phrase "Irish twins" is a knowing, cultural in-joke - I've only encountered it being used to take the piss out of somebody, but it might be used in a more neutral way.

British, American, etc people - regardless of whether or not you have some Irish ancestor - cannot use the phrase as a cultural in-joke because they are not culturally Irish. It can only ever be othering. Just don't.

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:31

I know my brother was grateful to have one child, let alone two within a year of each other. I suppose children are celebrated more in Ireland. Carefully planned in England.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 14:31

@Intothe

🙄

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 14:32

@MarDhea

Well said

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:33

@MarDhea Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Ohyesiam · 25/05/2019 14:33

I've never heard this before and would have assumed they were talking about Jedward
GrinGrinGrin

Priceless

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 14:34

MarDheaGet out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

No - just has a working brain

ILoveMaxiBondi · 25/05/2019 14:35

I suppose children are celebrated more in Ireland. Carefully planned in England.

Confused what on Earth are you talking about?

MyBlueMoonbeam · 25/05/2019 14:36

@ILoveMaxiBondi

There is no arguing with people with such limited intelligence 😬

Icandothisallday · 25/05/2019 14:37

MarDhea I disagree.

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:38

Interesting stats here

www.ft.com/content/d54e4fe8-3269-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498

The UK coming just behind Ireland..........

ILoveMaxiBondi · 25/05/2019 14:41

I can’t read that other than the title about fertility rates.

Abortion being illegal in Ireland until very recently and still illegal in NI might have an impact on those figures. Also the fact that some GPs still refuse to prescribe the pill would have an impact too.

magicBrenda · 25/05/2019 14:42

MarDhea oh stop it. I don’t care if none Irish folk use it. You don’t speak for me.

MayFayner · 25/05/2019 14:42

MarDhea Well said.

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:42

I think there are very generous provisions for children in Ireland. For e.g. Children's Allowance is €140 per month. Not sure what it is in the UK.
I suppose that means that extra children are not necessarily going to break the bank.

When mine were born, you also got an extra €250 per month for a couple of years, but that was axed when Ireland went bust.

Ireland's entire population is less than London. We've a similar area of as England. We're just not as densely populated.

MissConductUS · 25/05/2019 14:43

Remember that a very large percentage of Americans have Irish ancestry, so it’s not as “othering” as you may think.

It's about 10% of Americans who identify as Irish American, as I do. So it's certainly substantial. We're heavily concentrated in the northeast, between Boston and New York, and relatively rare in many other parts of the country.

MarDhea · 25/05/2019 14:43
  • @MarDhea Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning*

No, just sad to see the same old defensiveness emerging on MN every time someone is pulled up on anti-Irish sentiments.

The exact same conversation about the phrase "Irish twins" was had in this thread, which brought out all the jingoists out in force:
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amibeing_unreasonable/2859726-To-think-friends-are-being-over-senstivee*

Plus ça change.

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:43

the fact that some GPs still refuse to prescribe the pill

Say what now?

Fakeflowersandlemonade · 25/05/2019 14:44

I have Irish twins. I'm neither Irish nor offended. I find this less offensive than the "was your telly broken" and "buy one get one free" comments tbf

Intothe · 25/05/2019 14:46

From the stats, Sweden, France and Ireland are top three. I would say that the generous provisions for children may be an element there.