To think that “Irish twins” is an offensive term?

[CroissantwithCheese]

I read a thread on an American pregnancy forum about the term “Irish twins”. The OP posted some gushing statement hoping she was pregnant and that it would mean she had Irish twins. A commenter said it was offensive and I deeply agree. It was an idiom apparently created in the US in the 1800s, referring to the large families of Irish immigrants. It was derogatory, stereotyping the Irish for not having any sort of family planning and not using contraception. But this was hardly their fault as the church had banned contraception. The term has now become some sort of cutesy way of referring to two children born within a year of each other, and seems to be completely accepted. How can that be accepted and not considered offensive?!

I'm Irish. I had Irish twins.

My whole Irish family referred to them as such.
Not a single person ever questioned it.

Is Luck Of The Irish offensive too?

I never once heard this term in Ireland, and my parents are from families of 8 and 11 children. First time I heard it was in the US and I couldn't believe my ears.

Yes it’s a common phrase in the US. It means siblings born in the same year. Remember that a very large percentage of Americans have Irish ancestry, so it’s not as “othering” as you may think.

It was indeed 'othering' in the US.

It originated in a climate in which WASPs and protestant Britons could openly look down their noses at the Irish for breeding like rabbits.

The implication of the phrase was that Irish adults were ignorant of contraception, feckless about large families that had to be supported by the more careful members of society, and also living under the thumb of the RC church and therefore unable to think for themselves.

Many Irish and people of Irish descent in the US find it offensive, and therefore nobody should use the phrase, any more than anyone should insist on using any other phrase that offends someone of another ethnic or racial heritage. What the user of the phrase thinks of it is actually irrelevant.

And a nice big to anyone using the phrases 'professionally offended' or 'easily offended' and others of that ilk here.

Agree with MarDhea

raps were your children born from the same pregnancy? If not then they are not twins. If you RTFT you’d see why many are offended by the term “Irish twins” it’s an insult to the “stupid Irish” who couldn’t help themselves having baby after baby

She’s in the U.K.

GoldenRule genuine question - have you spent much time in NI? Because tbh growing up in Dublin I would've felt similarly (and still do see big cultural differences). But after more than a decade in Belfast I know just how grotesquely offensive your post is, not to mention pretty ignorant of both relatively recent history and current affairs.

Mar dhea I think you have it there.
Irish people don't mind it being used in Ireland, by other Irish people.
But (possibly?) the people who are offended are Irish people living in the UK, hearing it used by non Irish?
That makes sense to me. I have only ever heard it used in Ireland so have not been offended.
But you're right, there is some low level casual racism where I live, which I just brush off.....
It's all about context and intention isn't it.

On a side note, I find the concept of othering absolutely fascinating. Human nature is so tribal, for us to belong, someone else must not belong. Must there always be an"other", in order for people to feel they truly belong? (a feeling humans seem to crave)

Op I fond it offensive too. I am Irish descent and my view is probably as a resukt of the prejudice my Dad faced whrn he first came over to the UK from Ireland. I think my mum had similar experience but not as much.
I think for me it is not the connotations that the Irish people have big families and don't use contraception but the fact that they are too thick to understand the mesning of the word twin.
But this is my personal opinion and it is just as valid as anyone's personal opinion. You cant be unreasonable for thinking it is or isn't offensive.

I meant not as much tbe connotation. This is offensive too imo but more the stupid side.

She’s in the U.K.

Yes she is. She is also in Ireland.

Just like Welsh people live in the UK AND in Wales.

Scottish people live in the UK and in Scotland

It's not that difficult to understand is it?

Just because some people south if the boarder, seem to think NI isnt Ireland doesnt mean NI is not Ireland. These people are wrong and bigots.

RapscallionKat
"Is Luck of the Irish offensive too?"

I just wish it was true

I've not heard it before so learnt something today. I will not be using it in conversation as I find it a little offensive.

I’m a twin mum and I get deeply offended irritated by people who refer to their non-twins as twins just because they’re close in age. Not the same thing!

I’m guessing that’s not what you meant though

I think it’s meant to be derogatory in some cases, for sure.

sink girl, have you had both to compare?

id say if you were raising two babies at the same time, then it certainly is going to be comparable to twins, and a world apart from having a bigger age gap

Yes, it’s different from having a bigger age gap. It’s also very different from having twins. Not saying it’s not difficult, but it’s not the same (not least because choosing to have a second child when you already have a baby is different to getting two at once unexpectedly, or because if you’ve already had one singleton then you have some knowledge / experience of taking care of a baby,which you don’t if twins are your first, or because a multiples pregnancy is very different from a singleton pregnancy - I wouldn’t want to be pregnant while looking after a baby, not saying that isn’t difficult but it’s not the same).

Twin parents get it a lot - “mine are only a year apart so it’s the same as twins really”. Nope. It isn’t.

I'm not Irish (I have Irish heritage and an Irish name) and I would not use this term. My interpretation is not about how many children there are in Irish families but more about the Irish being stupid - ie if they have two children the same age they would call them twins, even if they were born 11 months apart. This is why I think it's offensive. However I'm happy to be persuaded that I'm wrong!

@Intothe has unfortunately perpetuated the stereotype of Irish stupidity with her remarks.

I was constantly listening to low level racism. Irish people who have never lived in UK wouldn't get it.

I sentiment is true.

Though it impacted me another way. Living in the UK, I have experienced loads of low, and not so low, level racism.

However, stuff like Irish Twins doesnt bother me. Growing up in Ireland I heard lots of derogatory comments about the English. My dads family is English with Danish roots.

Things like 'Irish twins' doesnt bother me. What does bother me is things like 'if you come from NI, you dont live in Ireland', 'your passport cant say Irish', 'you cant be offended because we tell you, you cant. It's not like racism against black communities, because you have never been downtrodden' etc.

So many people have an opinion, but actually know fuck all about Ireland or the history. This thread is showing quite a few Irish people dont either.

Let's some up, some of us Irish people are not offended. Some are. I may disagree with some but, it's not up to me to decide who should be offended and who shouldnt.

With phrases like this, make your own decision to use it. If you do and it offends someone. Have the good grace to accept that you have offended someone. Personally if someone offends me, but that wasnt their intention. They apologise and then we move on. How we love on depends what they have said. Intention matters to me, more than words. But that's not how everyone feels.

I've never heard of it until now. I would not however use it as it is obvious it is meant to be derogatory.

The posters however proclaiming that only people born in RoI are Irish and those in NI can't be are ignorant and bigoted.

@Procrastination4*

MyBlueMoonbeam
Just because your school didn’t teach you much history doesn’t mean all Irish schools were like that. In fact I’m always amazed, as an Irish person, at how much more about the history of the United Kingdom I know than the British competitors on The Chase or Tipping Point.

Read my post again - I said my school in the U.K had taught me more Irish History than kids here in Ireland are taught 🙄

I have heard it used in Ireland, although I wouldn’t use it myself.

Not as bad as the grotesque “throwing a paddy” which I see on MN a lot. People always defend it, but it’s a horrible, bigoted expression used by ignorant people.

I'm an Irish twin, born in the same calendar year too. And I'm Irish. It's not seen as derogatory where I'm from, just used as a descriptor.

Probably meant differently elsewhere though.

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD, It’s the same apparently: jumeaux irelandais, but is fairly recent. It’s called un retour de couche (return of periods - meaning you can get pregnant again I assume) but otherwise we have no expressions for that from what I can google anyway...although have been living in the Uk for a long time 😁

And i’m 😱 at throwing a paddy...20+ years of living here and i’ve never even thought that was referring to an Irish person... I quite like the expression...😳

I don't think it's offensive but do think it's another crappy twee term used by parents who think they're something special.

I don’t think Irish people were the only ones having lots of children back in the 1800s or even the early-mid 1900s
My nan had 11 DC, 2 sets of DC both in the same year the last born in 1955.
11 DC in 9 years.
It was the ban and sin of contraception too.