To think tuna is not vegetarian!

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

A member of my team has been involved in arranging a small event at work, which was taking place today. I'm on leave but dropped her a quick text to see how it was going, and also asked her to let me know particularly what she thought of the lunch provided/any delegate feedback about it as it was the first time we've used these particular caterers. Company policy is now to order vegetarian options only as standard.

She has just replied "lunch was fine - samosas, spring rolls, quiches (leek & cheese, broccoli), dips with raw veg crudites, sandwiches/wraps (salad, cheese, tuna mayo, egg & tomato) and lots of fruit".

Tuna?? On a vegetarian platter? AIBU to think the catering company has dropped a bollock here?

How stupid of them!

If some people have requested vegetarian plus tuna that's one thing.

To then incorporate tuna & claim it as a vegetarian option!

Boggling!

Lweji FFS. The dictionary definition of vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat or fish. That's a baseline, right? Some will extrapolate that to include by products, others won't (not everyone gives up meat and fish for ethical reasons, you know. Which means they might not have an issue with rennet or gelatine. Plus of course there's the issue of dairy and male calves. Can't believe I'm typing this). But that's the understood baseline, minimum of what a vegetarian is. I'm not the one deciding that this definition is wrong. Nor am I the one insisting that people who don't eat meat and fish (the commonly understood definition) but eat cheese or jelly or whatever can't use vegetarian and have to come up with another term for this.

Comparing this to cars or doctors is plain stupid. It's a lifestyle choice.

What about this, given that belief has been mentioned? There are Jews. Some are Orthodox, some ultra Orthodox. Do the ultra orthodox Jews get to tell other Jews that they're doing 'Jew' wrong? That they can't call themselves a Jew because they aren't as strict a Jew as them?

Extend that to any belief you care to mention. There will always be a baseline that is commonly understood, a starting point. Beyond that, knock yourself out.

And I say this as someone who isn't veggie but has a veggie DH (your definition of veggie), and a veggie DD (dictionary definition though stricter as she gets older and makes her own choices). You can fuck off if you tell me DD can't call herself veggie when she's never eaten meat or fish in her life but has had the odd Haribo.

Apologies if this has already been posted upthread, but this is the Vegetarian Society definition:

"A vegetarian diet can include…

Vegetables and fruits
Grains and pulses
Nuts and seeds
Eggs
Dairy products
Honey

A vegetarian diet does not include…

Meat or poultry
Fish or seafood
Insects
Gelatine or animal rennet
Stock or fat from animals"

If I'm ordering vegetarian catering then I'm going to go with the definition of the society that's predicated on supporting, advising, educating and informing vegetarians and those who are interested in becoming vegetarian. Words do mean things and if we blur the lines we end up in the situation where someone who is vegetarian by what appears to be the most consistent definition (not eating products or byproducts of slaughter) asks for a vegetarian option and is presented with fish or chicken or something made with animal stock.

There's no challenge to any of these lifestyles if you're just going to eat what you fancy anyway, be that meat three times a week while calling yourself 'flexitarian' or a Haribo because the taste of your favourite sweets outweighs your principles of not wanting to eat things derived from dead animals. Where's the incentive for food producers to make welfare-based changes to their practices if they're still going to make profits from so-called vegetarians who will eat their animal-derived products regardless?

As it happens I do believe that any change is better than no change so all power to those (and I'm among them) trying to cut down their consumption of anything unethical, be that meat or out of season fruit flown halfway around the world, but don't call yourself something if you're not going to adhere to the principles and definition just because it suits you not to on occasion.

Vegetarians don't eat meat or fish.
Pescatarians (spelling?) eat fish, not meat.

I'm a 'pescatarian'. I don't consider myself as wanting a fancy label, neither do I feel I deserve to be called a 'twat' thanks! I'd just rather say one word than 'I'm mainly vegetarian but I do eat fish sometimes'. Especially as that makes me not a vegetarian. Re the tuna confusion, I've often found the same with prawns - both definitely not vegetarian food items and the catering company should have this pointed out loud and clear.

Vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian are all fine, they mean something.
Flexitarian means absolutely nothing.

I agree that it’s better for everyone if we keep a strict standard definition of “vegetarian”.

But in that case it would be helpful to have a label for people who avoid meat or fish for environmental reasons but aren’t that fussed about Lea and Perrins. To my mind that’s a position that should be encouraged in as many people as possible. Just saying “well they’re omnivores just like 90% of the UK population” seems unhelpful. Of course in a commercial situation it’s easy, they just pick the vegetarian/vegan option for each specific meal. But socially people like labels, and “no I’m not a vegetarian, I just don’t eat meat or fish” gets messy.

That said, I have a mate who’s from a vegetarian culture, has never eaten meat or fish in her life and is repelled by the very idea (just because it’s so weird), but operates a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on Haribo. I wouldn’t like to be the one to tell her she’s not vegetarian.

The "sustainability" bit is bullshit. Just some twatty vegetarian in the office who has found a way to impose their choices onto everyone.

Or a convenient excuse to cut costs, since meat is usually the expensive part.

Tit so you're going to say that to a 9 year old who's never eaten meat or fish and actually does her damndest to always check sweets are veggie that she's not a proper vegetarian and she can't use that term because she's slipped up on occasion? Seriously? Because that would you a twat. A purist, language policing twat.

Ooh, we finally get to the bottom of Willie's bizarre and illogical stance! Defensiveness on behalf of her daughter...

Mini Willow isn't a vegetarian, no. But good for her for eliminating most meat products.

Nope, but I'm going to say it to her mother who can't stop banging on about language not mattering and who seems to want to change accepted definitions based entirely on her own family's eating habits - self centred much?

weeping I don't think it's about slipping up occasionally, it's people who call themselves 'vegetarian' when they have no intention of being one.

So if mini-Willow isn’t vegetarian, what should she say to the host when she goes to a sleepover?

Would you accept “More-or-less-vegetarian”?

The mood of the thread seems to be moving in the direction of “I’ll eat anything” which is the actual opposite of a desirable outcome.

I guess it’s the messy “I don’t eat meat or fish” and let the host decide for themselves what that means. Frankly, given the enduring idiocy of some caterers, a lot of vegetarians might be safer saying that.

about it as it was the first time we've used these particular caterers. Didn't the caterers send a menu?

'Slipping up' to me implies a genuine mistake...we've all made those. But if she's knowingly eating Haribo with animal derived gelatine in then no she's not vegetarian.

Although I do say I'm vegetarian ( for ease more than anything) I do eat fish & shellfish very occasionally - however, I would expect that I'd be asked if was OK first and not to presume.

That being said, I was recently asked by a friend who's wedding DH and I are going to if we ate chicken - 'because some vegetarians do'.

I think it was probably a meat free platter that was ordered, rather than vegetarian.

It's not an AIBU or a matter of opinion, it's factually not vegetarian.

@Weeping A genuine, occasional slip-up doesn't make you suddenly not vegetarian, but actively choosing to eat Parmesan, sweets with gelatine, Worcestershire sauce etc does. IMHO.

"I don't eat meat" is fine in that situation without muddying the definition of vegetarianism for people who actually choose not to eat ANY parts of an animal.

Didn't the caterers send a menu? Yes but as I said upthread, that particular item was described as a catch all "assorted vegetarian sandwiches & wraps" and as I didn't have any allergy considerations to take into account I didn't enquire further, since it never occurred to me that they might be about to pass fish off as vegetarian!

I think it was probably a meat free platter that was ordered, rather than vegetarian.

There was no option to order a meat free platter under that terminology. Again, I covered this upthread - I ordered the option described as 'vegetarian - basic'.

I think it was probably a meat free platter that was ordered, rather than vegetarian.

That would still be wrong though. Tuna (any fish) is meat, so it's not meat free either.

I’m married to a vegetarian, every meal I cook is vegetarian. When we dine out, I eat meat and I love it. I consider myself flexitarian. You think I’m a bellend. We all have different views on the same things.

I don't think you're a bellend, but neither do I think your diet warrants a special name.

Many will wear leather or other animal products, again, often without realising it.

Vegetarianism is purely about diet. The wearing of leather, fur etc is irrelevant, though of course many will choose not to for similar reasons to eschewing meat in their diet.

Vegetarianism is not a belief system with a laid down set of rules to abide by.

No, but the word 'vegetarian' has a definition. It's about what you eat. And it doesn't include tuna.

It's a lifestyle choice.

Not so simple, as far as I understand it.
If people don't want to eat meat, fine.
But vegetarians, as far as I can tell and I'm often told, do not want to eat products of animals that are killed for human consumption. It makes sense that it also includes byproducts of animal carcasses such as animal gelatin for example.

I'd think it's rather insulting to true vegetarians for anyone to call themselves vegetarian and happily eat products of animals killed for humans in any form.

And if we go by dictionary definitions:

Merriam-Webster:
: a person who does not eat meat : someone whose diet consists wholly of vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, and sometimes eggs or dairy products

Why are vegetarians happy to eat eggs, when chicks are minced because they are a by product?