To think that a good person can have an affair?

[Turtle89]

Can an inherently good person in a reasonable marriage fall in love with someone else and still be the same good person? What if they never told the OM how they felt? What if they kissed just the once? Can they still be a good person? What if it goes further? Where’s the line that turns a good person into a bad person? Or is it not that black and white?

FWIW I haven’t had an affair. I consider myself to be a good person but I’m wondering if my personality and self identity would change if I told OM how I feel about him or if I kissed him. Or more.

You're not a bad person OP.

But then I also find it almost amusing how many grown adults consider a quick snog an "affair", or cheating 🤷

Of course. For an example: my friend Tina. Loved her husband to bits! He had a car accident and can no longer get an erection/have sex as such. Tina is 39 with two kids. Should she spend the rest of her life with this man knowing she’ll never know sexual pleasure again? She thinks he’s a great father and partner aside from the physical side. Is Tina awful? No. She’s in an awful situation.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said

“Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny.”

OP you are sowing the seeds of your affair here. Trying to get MNers to say that yes it’s fine because you are a good person.

No it’s not fine. Leave your husband and pursue this man or stay and work to fix what’s wrong in your marriage.

People aren’t necessarily bad or good, the majority are mostly good but make bad decisions from time to time. We all do it occasionally, it’s how we learn and progress.

I don’t think someone who cheats is a bad person but they have definitely made a bad decision or series of bad decisions if it’s a full blown affair... I don’t quite know how they can sleep at night, the guilt would destroy me.

@sue every situation is different. If you are genuinely unhappy because you are with the wrong person (ie there is something wrong in the relationship, not just a better option has come along) then leave. (ideally before doing all the lying and sneaking around of an affair). As I said above, that is what is so wrong about affairs. Any quick look at the relationships board will tell you that.

As for disposable relationships, yes I do think that we give up too easily when a long term marriage is going through a naturally tough point, toddler years, empty nest, mid life crisis etc. I suppose it depends on whether you feel there is enough fundamentally good to make it worth hanging on and to outweigh the significant cost, in all senses, of breaking up a family. In some cases the answer is no and that's fine, but it still doesn't make an affair justifiable.

It's not about liking another person, or being attracted to someone else that makes you a 'bad' person, it is the sheer level of lies and deception that takes place for an affair to actually happen. No 'good' person thinks this is acceptable. Unfortunately, the psychology of affairs is such that a shift in usual thinking has to take place to allow the affair to take place - so you kid yourself it's a one-off, you're not going to leave your spouse, what they don't know won't hurt them etc.

My ex carried on an affair for at least 2 years - he was self employed and did it during what should have been his working time (and consequently was home 'on time' every night so I never really suspected a thing). He ran the business into the ground to be able to do it, continually lied to me and frequently gaslighted me, and used our joint monies to pay stuff like the mortgage on ensuring his affair partner had a fancy car and an expensive roof over her head. It was only at the point where he could no longer hide the state of the business that he decided to leave - clearing out what was left of our savings and whilst I was taking the children to school one morning, literally gutting the house of what he wanted. He hasn't paid any maintenance in 10 years, dragged me through court to make some kind of point about the children (he saw them regularly with no interference from me) and subsequently ignored the court order he fought so hard for. If you had asked me prior to him leaving what kind of person he was, I would have told you a decent, kind, loving man who would always put his family first. Affairs change people (or bring out what was under the surface) and in my opinion, you can't fundamentally be 'good' if you're prepared to do all of that.

No. I think a good person can make a one-off mistake during a low point in their life. I don't think someone who continues it into an affair and deceives and lies to their partner is a good person.

If you are genuinely unhappy because you are with the wrong person (ie there is something wrong in the relationship, not just a better option has come along) then leave. (ideally before doing all the lying and sneaking around of an affair)

I used to believe that with all my heart too. I don't now. Because I realised my DD's happiness was more important than my own.

There is no way I would have separated from her dad if I hadn't fallen in love with someone else.

Because her dad wasn't a bad man. Just a crappy husband to me. I put her before me.

When I fell in love, then I knew I had to go. If I hadn't, I would have stayed. My DD had no idea that my ex and I had problems. None. We didn't argue or anything. He just didn't love me but refused to tell me that. No way would I have split her family for nothing, just so I could have the moral high road of being able to say "well at least I didn't have an affair".

Maybe it is different because I told my husband I was going to start dating elsewhere, and he didn't care. Was quite happy to have an open marriage. So I never lied to him. At all.

But I Don't regret staying as long as I could for DD. I would rather be judged as an immoral adult than have split the family unnecessarily for a principle.

Also - I could never have lied to my husband or kept secrets from him. I would have left rather than do that. He deserved the truth always. I offered to separate but he didn't want to. Preferred an open marriage.

There are a thousand and one shitty things to do to the person you’re married to. An affair is the one that people see, though, and judge

This ^

The ones who have affairs are always demonized, as people ignore the circumstances that have led to it.

My husband lied to me for years and had a porn addiction. He didnt want to even cuddle me and chat, let alone have sex. I did all I could to try and make it work. Everything.

But I am the one frowned upon because I met someone else. I would never have even looked if my husband hadnt utterly checked out of our marriage.

A one time thing? Like say, a kiss or even a rough tumble before they realise what they've done? It's understandable. But to cheat repeatedly, to go home to your partner, lie to them, hide things and continue the torrid affair? Inexcusable. So, no, not a good person then.

The ones who have affairs are always demonized, as people ignore the circumstances that have led to it. My husband lied to me for years and had a porn addiction. He didnt want to even cuddle me and chat, let alone have sex. I did all I could to try and make it work. Everything

Except you didn't leave before cheating, did you? You are blaming your husband for not being the person you wanted or needed him to be. Chances are, you weren't the person he wanted or needed you to be either. So who's at fault? He may well have been an awful person who didn't care at all, but does that make it OK to lie and cheat?

I am sorry your marriage didn't work out the way you expected. My marriage wasn't what I expected either, but I didn't cheat. You are suggesting that everyone who cheats, does so because they were being badly treated by their spouse or that there are 'circumstances' which make it OK. It may well be the case some of the time. It certainly isn't the case all of the time.

You are suggesting that everyone who cheats, does so because they were being badly treated by their spouse or that there are 'circumstances' which make it OK. It may well be the case some of the time. It certainly isn't the case all of the time

I agree with you. I certainly don't agree that cheating is always understandable or forgivable. Sometimes, people are just bastards who want to have their cake and eat it. And Just can't keep it in their pants. I dont think that is understandable at all.

But I have learnt that marriage is not cut and dried. Particularly when kids are involved. I decided that my daughter being with her dad was more important than any judgement I received. And I would do the same again.

Except you didn't leave before cheating, did you? You are blaming your husband for not being the person you wanted or needed him to be. Chances are, you weren't the person he wanted or needed you to be either. So who's at fault? He may well have been an awful person who didn't care at all, but does that make it OK to lie and cheat?

Re this bit about me not being who he needed. That is really hurtful.....I didn't change, he did. What I did wasn't ideal but I did not lie. Ever. He knew about it all.

If I had lied, I still wouldn't judge. It is childish in the extreme to not see that everyone's situation is different. That you have no idea what goes on inside a marriage. That everyone has different views on whether keeping the children with their parents is more important than having the moral high ground.

I find all this "good and bad/black and white" to be indicative of either people never having had to make awful decisions, or simply being hard of thinking.

You can't help the way you feel, I get that. That doesn't make you 'good' or 'bad'.

A good person would end one relationship before starting another though. For everyone's sake.

Cheating, and the lying that inevitably comes with it, destroys everyone involved.

I don't agree with those saying 'you can't help falling in love with people'.

I will never cheat on my DH, I will never 'fall in love' with anyone but my DH. It takes a bit of effort to 'fall' for someone, you don't just look at someone and fall for them, you have to spend time thinking about them, developing deeper feelings for that person. I don't moon about random guys because I love and respect my DH. My romantic headspace only has room for DH. Affairs don't just happen.

The main problem with some affairs, is simply much like another poster. People will stay in really awful marriages. Or mediocre marriages for the children.
Which ultimately doesn’t work. Because one day you meet someone who makes you realise you can’t carry on like this and then. Boom you’re having an affair.

But very few people are sensible or pragmatic enough to think, I really need to end this relationship first. And it will always be that way.

A good person can fall in love with someone else.

A bad person acts on it without being honest with their spouse.

I will never cheat on my DH, I will never 'fall in love' with anyone but my DH. It takes a bit of effort to 'fall' for someone, you don't just look at someone and fall for them, you have to spend time thinking about them, developing deeper feelings for that person. I don't moon about random guys because I love and respect my DH. My romantic headspace only has room for DH. Affairs don't just happen

That is exactly how I felt when I got married. And for years afterwards. Sadly, bad treatment from my ex meant that changed.

Most people don't look elsewhere if they are happy, except some opportunistic selfish walkers.

But relationships change, often against your own will, and despite you fighting for it. When children are involved, it becomes even more complicated.

We don't always do the "right" thing. But that doesn't make someone a bad person. No-one exists in a vacuum and it is short sighted to not see that abuse can lead to the recipient of it not feeling able to leave for their own sake. That they have to.stay for the children.

I am happy for those who are in such good relationships that all this is cut and dried to them. I never ever thought I would look elsewhere. I meant my marriage vows. Things and people change.

A good person can easily feel an attraction to another person. I think crushes and lusting after another person other than your partner can be normal after years with the same person.

Acting on this attraction, even with flirting, and lying to your partner to hide the affair makes you a bad person. The line is crossed when you pursue the other man.

Depends on how you define 'good', really, doesn't it?

I don't believe there are 'good' people and 'bad' people – it implies a permanence to someone's state that just doesn't measure up to my experience of humanity.

No newborn baby comes with a BAD or a GOOD stamp on it.

So at what point does a person become a 'bad' person?

Toddlerhood, when they're a freaking nightmare? Teenagerdom, when they test boundaries and drive everyone up the wall? In their twenties, when they're making mistakes and learning to be an adult?

Once they've done a certain number of bad things (or at least, things our particular society deems to be bad)? What is that number? And if you do some good things, can you come back from being 'a bad person' or is it forever?

It's all made up – unless you ascribe to a binary view of morality and believe in a religious heaven and hell and good and evil, it's all just stuff a bunch of people who are dead now made up.

And also, does it really make any difference?

If you've left a trail of heartbreak and destruction behind you, will you really be lying in bed alone at night feeling fine because you found a philosophical way to believe that you're not 'a bad person' deep down? I'd hope not...

If you've left a trail of heartbreak and destruction behind you, will you really be lying in bed alone at night feeling fine because you found a philosophical way to believe that you're not 'a bad person' deep down?

I would think that if you left an actual trail of heartbreak and destruction you probably don’t even think about it!

It’s interesting because the people who have affairs and then their partner finds out and is completely shocked because they thought they were blissfully happy. Still having sex, still laughing, family tome, cuddles, they’re the people who I feel the most sorry for. Their partners are seriously screwed individuals. To be able to lead a double life.

Most people might be very hurt by an affair. But might also know that they too were very unhappy and sticking it out for the kids.

I feel like there's rarely a good excuse to have an affair.

While it may not make you 'evil' if you do, you're certainly not a very good person, and rather selfish and unpleasant.

To get away with cheating on someone you really do need to sink pretty low.

It’s interesting because the people who have affairs and then their partner finds out and is completely shocked because they thought they were blissfully happy. Still having sex, still laughing, family tome, cuddles, they’re the people who I feel the most sorry for. Their partners are seriously screwed individuals. To be able to lead a double life

Most people might be very hurt by an affair. But might also know that they too were very unhappy and sticking it out for the kids

This ^

Thinking about it now, I don't know if mine was an affair because we agreed to an open marriage, as we were more like siblings than spouses. My husband knew everything as it would have been disrespectful to lie to him.

But I was still unfaithful within marriage. Due to a desperate attempt to stay married for my DD's sake. We thought by opening the marriage up, we Could have an outlet elsewhere and maybe stay together. We were wrong.

So an affair or an attempt to save the marriage which went wrong?

SuePerbly

Thinking about it now, I don't know if mine was an affair because we agreed to an open marriage, as we were more like siblings than spouses. My husband knew everything as it would have been disrespectful to lie to him

I'm extremely disapproving of affairs. Extremely. But I think you ought to give yourself a break. Sounds to me like your husband left you open to an affair, raising no objection to you sleeping with someone else. Clearly he didn't give a shit. Frankly from your description, I find him to be most at fault and quite pathetic really. Not saying what you did was right, but he didn't even fight for you. Didn't fight to keep you from having to sleep with someone else within the marriage, from the guilt it has left you with.

You were pushed to the brink. No need to justify yourself to anyone.