Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think lots of women have very low standards for relationships?

90 replies

clairemcnam · 20/05/2019 14:17

So many women seem to put up with terrible behaviour from their partners/husbands. And other women minimise this behaviour. I know it is difficult to find decent relationships, but having low standards of acceptable behaviour is setting you up for being with at worse someone abusive and at best a total prat.

OP posts:
Pgqio · 20/05/2019 14:22

Not in my personal experience, no.

BigRedLondonBus · 20/05/2019 14:22

Most women put up with it due to the fear of being single/single parent

Raindropsonroses27 · 20/05/2019 14:24

Is this a deliberately superior post OP?

You really have no idea what goes on in other people's relationships and it's not really your concern is it?

I wouldn't settle for shoddy behaviour in a relationship but some women have various factors that make them stay.

Shootingstar1115 · 20/05/2019 14:27

I think sometimes you truly don’t know a person until well into a relationship then it’s harder to break away. A lot of people seem nice at first then when you get to know them..

I regularly have a similar convo with OH. His parents split when he was young and she met his stepdad when he was 2!! Anyway my partners stepdad ignored Oh his whole life basically, was only interested in his mum, abused OH, emotionally abused mil, kept her away from her family amongst other issues. OH didn’t have a pleasant childhood. I ask him why his mum stuck around for so long?? Personally I cannot imagine staying with a guy who is horrible to my children (being nasty to a spouse is one thing, but the kids??). He said she felt trapped like she had nowhere to go, nobody would want her, no money but it baffles me how she could stay with somebody for so long!

clairemcnam · 20/05/2019 14:29

I totally understand why women stay in awful relationships. It is hard to leave when it involves kids, and there are finances and housing to sort.
I am sorry I did not mean this as a victim blaming thread.
Just fed up of women defending totally shit behaviour from men.

OP posts:
Bumbalaya · 20/05/2019 14:31

I think when i got together with my now husband there were so many ticks. He was:
-Hilarious
-Kind
-Very intelligent
-Very good in bed
-Fun
-Emotionally self aware
-Good taste in music

  • Generous and thoughtful
-A great dad to his daughter Plus there were loads of coincidences about our lives and places/ people we knew.

BUT

I was in my twenties and had no mother at home growing up so had never even thought about how important it would be to me when I had children later on that he would be:
-Financially responsible/ sensible
-Hygienic
-Look after his physical cleanliness and health
-Do his fair share round the house

  • Cook... ever
  • Ambitious
-Invested in equality -High standards for house cleanliness -Want to trave;/ have holidays -Brush his teeth

It turns out that the second lot of things I listed are deal breakers for me, but I didn't see how intertwined our lives would become once we had had children e.g. how powerless I would become to live the life I had envisioned for myself and my children without someone pulling against the tide of that dream. Marriage (with kids) almost forces you to be dependant on each other.

I am going to tell my DD to make a list of things that are absolute deal breakers.

mbosnz · 20/05/2019 14:31

I totally agree.

howwudufeel · 20/05/2019 14:31

Young women have been taught that bad boys are attractive and good people are boring.

Plaiceholder · 20/05/2019 14:32

My wife does.

ScottishDoll · 20/05/2019 14:34

Relationship health should be taught in schools. Children need to learn about communication, critical thinking, resilience, sexual health, diplomacy, and how to define and deal with abuse. Girls need strong female role models, to know they have options.

Instead society is going the opposite way, reinforcing stereotypes and encouraging vanity and shallowness. Removing children's confidence in themselves and their ability to adapt. Creating systems for men to avoid paying towards their children and dismantling state support for single parents. 90% of single parents are women.

History repeats itself and unfortunately by the time some women realise they are caught in an abusive cycle they are often tied by children and feel trapped. The women most likely to perpetuate the cycle have come from poor relationships at home so don't have the real life extended support to extract themselves and their children safely. Their children grow to learn poor relationship behaviour and the cycle continues.

Confident educated women from wonderful family backgrounds are just as able to be sucked into the trap of an abusive relationship, it all starts out lovely and drip by drip their self worth and esteem is eroded until they do not have the strength to imagine life alone as a possibility. Compromise after compromise becomes character destruction.

What seems obvious to an outsider can be the culmination of years of manipulation and could take as long to undo.

Remember avoidance and denial are coping mechanisms, unhealthy ones but still indicators of pain.

FookMeFookYou · 20/05/2019 14:39

Using MN as an example then yes it would seem that a LOT of women do, but I wouldn't say most and certainly not in my RL experience.

Me personally, absolutely not. But that goes for anyone who may take my kindness and loyalty for granted/weakness.

Gigglinghysterically · 20/05/2019 14:42

I don't think OP is being superior. I think she is probably just making an observation based on either her experience or from MN posts.

I was shocked by the number of posts about abusive partners when I first joined MN but I suppose most of us don't have a need to post if we're in good relationships.

AnalyseThis · 20/05/2019 14:48

I was shocked by the number of posts about abusive partners when I first joined MN but I suppose most of us don't have a need to post if we're in good relationships.

This. Having recently returned to Mumsnet after being largely absent for a few years, I found myself thanking all the gods that I was single and swearing off men forever before reflecting that people in good relationships probably just aren't posting about it on AIBU...

clairemcnam · 20/05/2019 14:49

FookMe I used to think that, but MN has helped me to recognise warning signs in marriages I previously thought were fine.

OP posts:
ScottishDoll · 20/05/2019 14:50

I have often seen in real life what once seemed good relationships which muddled along fine turn utterly toxic with the arrival of children and sometimes never recover, certainly not return to what they were. The resentment that can build up from one partner refusing to team up isn't easily forgiven and it does seem like a trigger for some adult men to revert to teenager behavioural habits - which is just flat out abusive in an adult.

What's worse is that the behaviour is seen as excusable by men and women when instead it should be seen as shameful to not just crack on and get the work done when one partner is laid up or busy with a baby.

I do think no good comes of judging a woman who is entrenched in that, you can only offer a listening ear and as much support to get out as possible and hope that one day she takes you up on it.

thecatsthecats · 20/05/2019 14:50

Young women have been taught that bad boys are attractive and good people are boring

Well, they are taught by TV that 'messy' relationships can be worth it (see SATC...).

More importantly, there seems to be a trend for messy relationships, standards and behaviour to be considered a rite of passage for women specifically (think Girls, Fleabag, Drifters) - as far as I can see the trend for men is still very much 'sleep around then settle down'.

I often feel like I am thought of as 'lesser' in terms of relationship experience by my friends who've been in nothing but shit ones, because I've been with my husband since we were teenagers. But for twelve years, my husband and I have grown up together, communicated, and navigated relationship and life changes. Somehow this makes me 'inexperienced' compared to those who've cheated/been cheated on or had bad experiences back to back.

I'm not trying to sound holier than thou - however successfully! I do find though that there is a tendency for those with bad experiences to lean on one another, which to some extent limits their exposure to actual sane norms and boundaries.

HarperIsBazaar · 20/05/2019 14:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScottishDoll · 20/05/2019 14:51

MN has helped me to recognise warning signs in marriages I previously thought were fine.

This is totally true and why we should be teaching children to recognise and deal with red flags before they embark on their own relationships.

Getthepetwet · 20/05/2019 14:58

So many of my friends put up with absolutely shocking behaviour from their "d"hs. Its shocking what some of them get away with really. And some of my friends try to minimise the severity of it by laughing about it, calling them "typical lads" and dismissing it, even though they are clearly annoying and wouldn't dream on acting in the same way. My dh looks like a bloody Saint compared to them, and they say it's because he's "under the thumb"... I like to find them it's just basic respect to not snog a stripper every Friday, or get so drunk they return home at 7am puke all over the house, smash stuff and then sleep the entire weekend.

Getthepetwet · 20/05/2019 14:59

*remind them

LadyBrienneofTarth · 20/05/2019 15:09

Agree with @Bumbalaya

I had no idea - my mother didn't talk to me about, well, anything that mattered and her relationship with my father wasn't anything I would want to emulate

It took me until my late 20s to work out what most of friends already knew

And even then my self esteem was so low I put up with some truly awful behavior - hindsight's a wonderful thing - I couldn't see it at the time

I will be talking to my daughter and ensuring she's in a better position than I was

BuildBuildings · 20/05/2019 15:11

@Bumbalaya I think your post is really insightful. The things which are deal breakers to me now luckily my long term partner ticks the boxes. However when I was 19 and at uni (when we met) I probably didn't even think about. Such as his domestic attitude and how he would support me through poor mental health. I think like pp's have said you often don't know people for a few years. I also think children make a huge difference. In terms of someone's true colours emerging but also in just putting up with stuff.
I personally know of loads of intelligent women who put up with quite poor behaviour. Something I also see a lot of is women making way more compromises and giving themselves over to the relationship than men do. Just as an example I've seen more often than not women picking up a hobby the man has or traipsing around after his job/hobby/interest in a way I don't really see the opposite way around.

Whatisthisfuckery · 20/05/2019 15:15

I think the vast majority of women, and I’m including myself in this, don’t realise they’re in a crap relationship until things get really bad, by which time they’re tied down by marriage, children and financial dependence. It’s the old boiled frog analogy, the heat is slowly turned up and you don’t notice. Things can be absolutely awful, completely unacceptable to most other people but you don’t realise because it’s your normal. Then when you do realise, your self esteem has been eroded so much that it seems impossible to escape.

Women don’t go out looking for a bad man, and when they start out in a relationship things aren’t bad. If abusive men were abusive from the get go they’d never get a partner in the first place, and of course they’re lovely and charming to everyone on the outside. Most abusive men are perfectly lovely to everyone other than their partner, which only goes to prove that being abusive is a conscious choice, rather than a character or personality flaw.

Unfortunately we still live in a society that is trained to favour the man, sympathise with the man and blames women for poor choices which they didn’t intentionally make, rather than blaming the perpetrator of the abuse. I remember when I left my abusive ex even my own family took his side. Sometimes it can feel more lonely and isolating escaping a bad relationship than staying put and being abused.

As a society we really need to do better at educating our young people about what is and what isn’t acceptable behaviour in a relationship. Unfortunately it would seem that we’re actually going backwards at this. Virtually from toddlerhood girls are being fed the message that their worth is dependent on how pretty they look, then as they get older how many likes they get. Even before they’re interested in boys they’re already acutely aware of the need to look sexy And be demure and passive. Mean while most of our young men and boys are wanking themselves sick to violent and degrading porn, then taking their pornsick ideas of sex into the bedroom where they inflict it on their partner. Young women are expecting sex to be painful and unpleasant and good sex now is any sex that doesn’t hurt. It’s sickening, young children are seeing porn before they really understand what sex is, and before they’ve even felt the desire for someone else. I’ve had long chats with my 11 yo DS about internet porn already, because I know that it’s already being talked about. He’s still in every way a child and yet I’m having to discuss something that I find abhorrent but the rest of society seems to think is normal. This is not how I planned to teach my child about relationships, it’s all the wrong way around, but yet I have to before someone else tells him all the wrong things.

So no, unfortunately women put up with the most appalling behaviour from their male partners, and unless we decide as a society that abusive behaviour is unacceptable and we stop minimising and enabling it, and stop pretending it’s fine that our boys and young men are getting off on more and more misogynistic depravity then it’ll only get worse.

BuildBuildings · 20/05/2019 15:16

Also... My mum didn't talk to me about this stuff either. I put up with some horrible behaviour from 17 to 19. I know that's young but I was old enough to know it was bullshit. Just not old enough to know what to do and that I was worth more. I think this was quite a formative experience as I realised I didn't want it to happen again.

Aprillygirl · 20/05/2019 15:19

I agree. It makes me sad because it seems that some women don't think they deserve any better, or some women's self esteem is so low that any man will do.I've taught my girls that any man would be very lucky to have them and not the other way round and that it doesn't take a man to complete you,as so many of their friends seem to think.