To think lots of women have very low standards for relationships?

[clairemcnam]

So many women seem to put up with terrible behaviour from their partners/husbands. And other women minimise this behaviour. I know it is difficult to find decent relationships, but having low standards of acceptable behaviour is setting you up for being with at worse someone abusive and at best a total prat.

Traditionally, the first big relationship a child has with a man is their relationship with their father and the men in their family. It is so often monkey see and monkey do ...

When we were planning on getting married we both had counselling - an opportunity to talk with a neutral party about our expectations and assumptions we had. It was the best thing and should be compulsory ...

(career, family, children, sex, finances, living arrangements, wills and consequences if marriage failed).

YANBU. There is also far too much pressure on people, particularly women, to be in couples, especially live in ones so they waste their lives when everyone else 'finds love' with some man when they could be finding it all over - with themselves, their friends, their families, pets, hobbies and interests, careers/jobs, travel, children they have on their own, all sorts. Some people are so terrified of their own company they'll put up with any ol' shit. As my mother always told me, 'If you don't love yourself, no one will, either.'

why do we allow present the women as victims?

I agree, there are some "martyrs" who complain about mental load and put up with ridiculous things but are very strongly opposed to let their husband do anything.

But there are are as many examples of women who ran away, not always with their kids, women who divorce and take all the money they can get, women who empty a bank account whilst their husband is away for work.

My point is that some people are shit and have bad behaviour, but it's not all "women victims" vs "bad men".

The first thing I teach my own daughter is that they are not weak victims in a world rules by men, that's absolute bollocks.

Most men like this don't act like complete arseholes from the beginning. Even if they have some "outing" behaviours they over compensate with attention,grand gestures etc. Then they slowly start pushing boundaries and chip away at the self esteem of the woman.

As time goes on the "sunken costs" fallacy applies, women are more reluctant to accept they wasted x amount of years on a twat, than realising that they'll waste even more by saying.

That's without the baggage,trauma,low self esteem and isolation that comes from being abused .

A previous history of abuse in childhood or by a previous partner can also leave someone vulnerable and either unaware of the red flags or willing to put up with some behaviours as they're not "that bad" compared to their previous experiences. Add in a need to be loved or accepted or just be seen by someone and it's not hard to see why they might become a victim of someone ready to take advantage of that.

I agree with seeing MN posts would make you think that sometimes!

I've always been fairly lucky, no really bad tales to tell. My best friend is very different - she was in bad relationship after bad relationship for many years. But equally she wouldn't take on board that actually it's quite okay to be single - I've had long single spells myself and I didn't wither and die. Some people really would just rather be in a bad relationship than without one, and I find that a bit troubling sometimes.

Sadly though now she's in a relationship with a really lovely man, but he doesn't want kids (she knows this, he's been very honest about it) and she does, but tells him that she doesn't precisely because she's just so scared of being alone. It's not going to end well, but he isn't the one in the wrong here.

IfCakesHappens If only being a "strong" woman could protect you from sexual harassment, abuse and rape?

If only being a "strong" woman could protect you from sexual harassment, abuse and rape?

that's a bit of step from low standard for relationship?

You do realise that boys can be victims too btw?

A very high proportion of women experience sexual harassment, abuse and rape. Very few men are prosecuted for this.

Are you basing this assumption on the examples you read on mumsnet? If that’s your main source of info then you should consider that it’s going to be massively skewed towards crap partners. People don’t tend to come on her just to let people know that everything is going well.

There are also reasons why women might be more likely to stay with crap partners than men. Women who have taken career breaks or are SAHMs are likely to be financially dependent on their partners so feel they have to put up with crap. And some women have had very bad role models where the women in their lives have been subservient to their partners. In many cultures this is still considered acceptable.

I am guessing that women who are beaten, abused and race in a relationship don't have "low standards" but are scared for their life!

*raped, not race

I agree boiled frog and sunk costs (this is true for me).
I also think that we live in uncertain times. For the vast majority of human evolution children have been more likely to survive if they have 2 parents. This would have been particularly true if they were living in an isolated way and not part of a band or tribe (a bit like me on most days).
We are constantly seeing images of DCs who are homeless or destitute. Add to that the fear of terrorism and Nigel Farage and the other night on TV I saw a dragon torch a city. We may be able to see intellectually that we are living in safe times, but I am sure that part of my worry is that I will need my husband to fight beside me if a Brexit breaks the front door down and tries to kill us all.
I'm slightly exaggerating but I do think that once you have kids there is some bravery in stepping off into the unknown.

Mumsnet proved this beyond doubt for me. I’m absolutely shocked at what some women are being put through by their lazy, selfish, entitled, boring, rude or outright abusive husbands. Makes me deeply grateful for mine, who isn’t an arsehole!

TotheLaunchBay Mon 20-May-19 16:59:50

I agree boiled frog and sunk costs (this is true for me)...part of my worry is that I will need my husband to fight beside me if a Brexit breaks the front door down and tries to kill us all.

Hate to break it to you but guys like this are exactly the sort to bolt the minute the going gets tough and look after themselves only, that's why 90% of single parents are women!

It's a lovely thought that he has your back but if he can't show you respect on a day to day basis why the hell would he risk his own skin to keep you safe in a crisis, it isn't logical to assume that?

shootingstar same situation happened to me. My parents broke up when I was a baby and my DM met someone when I was two. She was with him for thirteen years in total, they had my brother together when I was six. He beat me, bullied me, resented my existence, was a general nasty piece of work, drug user etc and his parents always excluded me too. Not someone you would want anywhere near your children at all. I have spoken to my DM about it since and asked why she stayed with him so long, she was mentally ill for many years and terrified of coping alone...

I think that is the crux of it really, some people are afraid of being alone so much so they would endanger their own children. I put my own children first 100% of the time and anyone who stepped out of line with them would be dealt a short shrift.

Hindsight is a great thing. It's only now,18 months after splitting with my partner of nearly 5 years,that I realise the amount of crap that I put up with from him. Don't get me wrong,I'm not saying I was perfect. But when I really think about the way he behaved a lot of the time,I think I can honestly sat that he acted like a complete prick. One of his favourite phrases was 'I've never let you down'. Um,well actually you have,numerous times. And 'I've never lied to you'. Oh yes you have. And the best one,that ultimately was the straw that broke the camel's back, 'You're lucky to have me'. After 4 years and 9 months,I thankfully finally realised that no,I WASN"T lucky to have him.
I think the problem was,as is practically always the case in relationships where a woman puts up with shitty behaviour, is that she is 'in love' (,or thinks she is). And a fear of being alone if you finish the relationship. I was in my early 50s and feared that I'd be alone for the rest of my life if I ended it. But you know what,I'm so much happier now.

Of course it seems that way, people hop on to a forum when they want advice, rather than to brag... if you posted about your great husband who's so wonderful, people would tell you off for being smug (also what would be the point)

there has been a thread recently asking what lovely things you DH did to you, and the whole thread was rather lovely

*did FOR you

both would work I guess, but the theme of the thread wasn't the first one

Scottish doll I totally agree, I don't think that it's logical at all. I think that it's an irrational and no longer useful pattern.

Far too many women don't have examples of healthy relationships growing up and it becomes a cycle.

I walked straight into a vile relationship because to me that was normal it was all I knew growing up. I know better now but it is easy to become stuck

Yes they do but it's not the done thing to say so. I raise a brow at some of the 'It's not the 1950s you know!' comments on MN yet alongside are posts where women have married men who are utter lazy slobs who won't even wash a cup. How nasty and unattractive is that..? I call men like that 'The Unfuckables'.

Women on here as grown adults faffing because a man is on WhatsApp but hasnt messaged them oooh should I message, I know he's online oh what shall I do, blah blah blah. A man who can't be bothered to pick up the phone as opposed to messaging or wanting to see you = a bad bargain so why wait on him? For what,?

In this day and age I am surprised at a lot of the angst around men. Men aren't Gods and life shouldn't revolve around them.

I've done my share of silliness regarding men men but it didn't last long as self-preservation is a thing I suppose, also now older I realise there isn't a man I will love more than I love me and my children. I'd rather be alone than have a headache and stress due to a man. Peace is important.

I didn't grow up in the UK and back home women had no help re domestic violence. It's your husband, so put up with it. There were still women who escaped it and led a hard life but at least weren't being used as a punchbag. So I guess it bewilders me coming from island life to UK, and seeing over here that a turd of a man can get a woman to stay and angst over him, having children living in that toxic environment too.

I do understand the many factors. Self-esteem, abuse, etc so many reasons but I still can't help thinking at least you've a chance of advice and help.

Its mens' fault when all said and done but still, I wish the bar could be raised en-masse so they couldn't get away with the shit that they do

Women on here as grown adults faffing because a man is on WhatsApp but hasnt messaged them oooh should I message, I know he's online oh what shall I do, blah blah blah. A man who can't be bothered to pick up the phone as opposed to messaging or wanting to see you = a bad bargain so why wait on him? For what,?

I really really couldnt be arsed with this. I just havent got the patience. Ive been with DH for 27 years and if (God forbid) something happened to him there is no way im using any of these awful dating sites. It seems to be a digital version of the pick me dance.

Fuck that. And i aint shaving you know where for no man. Im aware some women do it for themselves and thats fine but i wouldnt do it to please someone else. Not worth it.

I only see it on mumsnet, not in real life, but the women I chose to socialise with are bolshy.

On here I see too much of financial reasons women stay or something inexplicable where they "love" a man who treats them like shit.

I suspect what I see on mumsnet is a fairer representation of society than my social circle.

A lot do. I left an abusive husband, so I don't know if it's true of me or not. He became more and more selfish and more and more unreasonable over time, the more dependant I was on him.

It's so true that women fear being a single mother. There are reasons for this. Poverty! Not to be sniffed at. The abuse can continue, and it can continue through the courts.

I've been single for 12 years. In all that time I've never met anybody I was attracted to who treated me with respect, affection, intelligence, humour and common decency. Lots of frogs. I walk away from the frogs as soon as they ribbit so I'm not willingly signing up for shit, not even subconsciously.

I can see why if somebody's biggest fear is being single they will end up with an arsehole.