What on earth is going on in America??

[Nanny0gg]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48275795

How can a supposedly 'civilised' society pass such a retrograde law?

And other states following suit?

I can understand the position that all life is sacred and therefore a 6 week old, unviable embryo should not be ‘killed’, because it has a heartbeat. I don’t agree, but I understand.

What I CANNOT understand is how anyone working within that philosophy can be anything other than a hard-core vegan! How can they bear to eat a fish? shoot a bird? swat a fly? They all have heartbeats don’t they? And they’re more senitient than an embryo.

It’s either pure hypocrisy, or it’s a spiritual argument rather than a moral one (i.e. that people unlike animals have a soul) in which case this way of thinking has NO business meddling in law for goodness sake!

Whoever said this is Christian Sharia spoke the truth.

This is stupid and counterproductive to go back on abortion laws, but there needs to be a middle ground and not just I'm going to have a quick abortion in my lunch hour, please just cover my phone until I get back...which has happened...

I've never met anyone like this ever, and I've worked with a diverse range of young women for years. And in any case how people present their choices and how they really feel are not necessarily the case. And personally I don't see the need to sit in judgement over other women, their body, their choice.

I have also known women with disabilities from trying to miscarry in circumstances where abortion was illegal, people with bodily disabilities because of failed backstreet abortions that affected their development in the womb, there are also the many cases of women and children abused under regimes where abortion was not allowed - the system that a number of women endured in Ireland for many, many years for example. I have a great-aunt who died from an infection after a backstreet abortion. For every example you can cite of someone who didn't pass your test for how you think someone should behave when having a termination I can think of women who risked their lives, were permanently disabled or died because abortion was not an option for them.

Garnier: This isn't about pro-life, it's about punishing women for having sex.

This - very much so (as is totally obvious from the fatuous "no-one died of being a virgin" comment). Some people just have a really warped set of ideas round the idea that women could want sexual autonomy and autonomy over what happens with their own bodies.

If you don't want to be pregnant, all you have to do is wait 9 months

No thanks. I'm not an incubator or a vessel. If I don't want to be pregnant I'll have an abortion.

sheettent Not sure. Maybe you can let us know one day.

Actually, following an abortion you have a 7 times higher risk of suicide.

Whereas women who give up their babies for adoption as you would prefer to see are completely unaffected emotionally, right?

Let's say that you don't find out you're pregnant for several months. (This happens, incidentally.) Past the stage of viability.

Do you have the right to have an abortion, knowing that your baby could be saved at this point? If so, again, it's not about bodily autonomy, is it?

agnurse no, you really haven't. You've been very entertaining though, I'll give you that.

What is going to happen to women in Alabama who want an abortion ? Will they have to travel to a state with better women choice legislation? I can’t believe this is happening - it’s a huge step backwards.

Actually I am married to a man and he is as against abortion as I am

Did you meet him at your 'accredited university'?

Actually, following an abortion you have a 7 times higher risk of suicide. You have a higher risk of breast cancer. (Ironically, pregnancy and breastfeeding lower the risk of breast cancer.) You have a higher risk of developing an incompetent cervix. This can lead to problems carrying a pregnancy in the future.

I’d be grateful if you could link us to the peer-reviewed studies that found this to be the case please. Because it sounds like made up pro-life BS.

No, I met him after I had already graduated.

The university I attended was secular. Actually, all of the post-secondary institutions I attended were secular. I've attended four, as a matter of fact.

Do you have the right to have an abortion, knowing that your baby could be saved at this point? If so, again, it's not about bodily autonomy, is it?

I don't understand your point here.

I believe that yes, you should have the right to an abortion, because you should be able to decide what happens to your body.

Actually, following an abortion you have a 7 times higher risk of suicide. You have a higher risk of breast cancer. (Ironically, pregnancy and breastfeeding lower the risk of breast cancer.) You have a higher risk of developing an incompetent cervix. This can lead to problems carrying a pregnancy in the future. Abortion is not safer than childbirth.

Cite your sources.

I've had several miscarriages which were managed using the same procedures used in abortion. Increased risk of breast cancer, suicide, and incompetent cervix were not on the consent forms therefore I call bullshit.

Let's not forget some of the risks of pregnancy and childbirth:

• vomiting and nausea

-:hyperemesis gravidarum

• fainting
• fluid retention
• acid reflux and heartburn
• an increase or commencement of domestic violence
• social stigma
• discrimination
• loss of earnings
• loss of career
• headaches
• depression, anxiety, psychosis
• diastasis recti
• SPD and pelvic girdle pain
• urinary incontinence
• fecal incontinence
• long term, permanent damage to the pelvic floor including repairs requiring surgical repair
• embolism
• aneurysm
• gestational diabetes
• pre-eclampsia
• infections
• sepsis
• surgical intervention to aid delivery or repair damage caused by delivery including all risks related to such procedures
• abdominal adhesions
• stroke
• high blood pressure
• low blood pressure
• insomnia
• death

And that is not even an exhaustive list.

It's reeeeally fucking easy to be "against" abortion as a man. It takes a certain level of quite vile and bitter misogyny to be so blinkered as a woman. Handmaiden indeed.

Actually, following an abortion you have a 7 times higher risk of suicide.

NOT actually the case just another convenient non-statistic peddled by the anti-Choice lobby:

The idea that abortion is linked to higher risk of suicide has been used to discourage women from having abortions. It has found its way into mandated counseling laws—in Texas, for instance, women are given a booklet warning them that they are at increased risk of becoming suicidal if they have an abortion?

New research from ANSIRH’s Turnaway Study found no evidence that women who have abortions are at higher risk of developing symptoms of suicidal ideation than women denied abortions. Women who sought abortion at later gestational ages were at no higher risk of having suicidal thoughts post-abortion seeking than those who sought abortion earlier in pregnancy.

Researchers found that having a history of mental health conditions and intimate partner violence increased women’s risk of experiencing symptoms of suicidal ideation, not having an abortion. Policies requiring that women be warned that they are at increased risk of becoming suicidal if they choose abortion are not supported by scientific evidence.

bixbycenter.ucsf.edu/news/abortion-not-linked-increased-risk-suicidal-thoughts

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271

Pregnancy is 14 times more likely to result in death than abortion.

MrsKCastle

So you would advocate that a living baby that could survive on its own outside the womb should be destroyed, rather than just delivering it early and providing the care it needs?

In that case, it's not really about bodily autonomy, is it?

I’d be grateful if you could link us to the peer-reviewed studies that found this to be the case please. Because it sounds like made up pro-life BS.

Funnily enough, it is! How odd that a self-defined nurse would claim such a thing.

agnurse I met my husband on a career development course; he's nice. He strongly believes women should have bodily autonomy.

So, because pregnancy is 14 times more likely to result in death than abortion (in the U.S. where the maternal mortality rate is unacceptably high), we should allow abortion?

The major cause of death is life. Should we eliminate life so that there is no more death?

this is interesting

Scand J Public Health. 2015 Feb;43(1):99-101.
Decreased suicide rate after induced abortion, after the Current Care Guidelines in Finland 1987-2012.
Gissler M1, Karalis E2, Ulander VM2.

AIM:
Women with a recent induced abortion have a 3-fold risk for suicide, compared to non-pregnant women. The increased risk was recognised in unofficial guidelines (1996) and Current Care Guidelines (2001) on abortion treatment, highlighting the importance of a check-up 2 - 3 weeks after the termination, to monitor for mental health disorders. We studied the suicide trends after induced abortion in 1987 - 2012 in Finland.

CONCLUSIONS:
The excess risk for suicide after induced abortion decreased, but the change was not statistically significant. Women with a recent induced abortion still have a 2-fold suicide risk. A mandatory check-up may decrease this risk. The causes for the increased suicide risk, including mental health prior to pregnancy and the social circumstances, should be investigated further.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25420710

Am J Psychiatry. 2018 Sep 1;175(9):845-852. doi:
Five-Year Suicidal Ideation Trajectories Among Women Receiving or Being Denied an Abortion.
Biggs MA1, Gould H1, Barar RE1, Foster DG1.

OBJECTIVE:
The aim of this study was to assess the effects of receiving compared with being denied an abortion on women's experiences of suicidal ideation over 5 years.

CONCLUSIONS:
Levels of suicidal ideation were similarly low between women who had abortions and women who were denied abortions. Policies requiring that women be warned that they are at increased risk of becoming suicidal if they choose abortion are not evidence based.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29792049

agnurse So you would advocate that a living baby that could survive on its own outside the womb should be destroyed, rather than just delivering it early and providing the care it needs?

You seem to be suggesting that newborn babies should be left to die for want of a blood transfusion or an organ transplant. Why is there no legal compulsion for those things to be provided for them?

The major cause of death is life. Should we eliminate life so that there is no more death?

Oh stop it. I’m embarrassed for you.

You have a higher risk of breast cancer. (Ironically, pregnancy and breastfeeding lower the risk of breast cancer.)

Induced abortion i.e. a termination does not, in the most authoritative studies, demonstrate a higher cancer risk, and in fact later pregnancies can, according to some studies, increase cancer risk:

Still, a full-term pregnancy after age 30 is linked to a higher risk of breast cancer than never giving birth.

The largest, and probably the most reliable, study on this topic was done during the 1990s in Denmark, a country with very detailed medical records on all its citizens. In this study, all Danish women born between 1935 and 1978 (a total of 1.5 million women) were linked with the National Registry of Induced Abortions and with the Danish Cancer Registry. All of the information about their abortions and their breast cancer came from registries – it was very complete and was not influenced by recall bias.

After adjusting for known breast cancer risk factors, the researchers found that induced abortion(s) had no overall effect on the risk of breast cancer. The size of this study and the manner in which it was done provide good evidence that induced abortion does not affect a woman’s risk of developing breast cancer.
www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/medical-treatments/abortion-and-breast-cancer-risk.html

Agnurse cite your fucking sources.
Because otherwise everything you write just comes across as bullshit.