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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mum ringing in sick, for my junior.

452 replies

KungFuPandaWorks · 13/05/2019 16:19

I arrived at work before just checking on the diary and paperwork, and notice one of the junior hairdresser isn't in. One of the stylists (S1) informs me the junior is poorly today.

No big deal we all get poorly, until another stylist (S2) chips in that her mum called on her behalf, and that she's off sick because of a high temperature.

I think it's highly inappropriate having someone ring in on your behalf unless exceptional circumstances (unconscious, hospital, no voice etc) but for a high temp?

S1 thinks that because she's only 16 that's it not so bad that her mum calls on her behalf and I should let it drop.

Myself and S2 think it's absolutely ridiculous she's had her mum ring in on her behalf. Not to mention it's not exactly the greatest reason to be off.

AIBU? WIBU mentioning to her, that in the future she must ring herself unless she is totally unable in doing so.

OP posts:
pigsDOfly · 14/05/2019 19:36

Good grief mathanxiety I have to agree with WeepingWillow you've jumped to an awful lot of conclusions there with that post.

Do you know this girl and her family?

somecakefather · 14/05/2019 19:58

This mother probably does a family laundry (especially if there are younger children in the home) buys groceries, cooks, etc, with the teenager probably contributing some of her wage and contributing a little to the work of keeping the home going

What a silly silly post. What has that ^ got to do with the OP? You are being utterly ridiculous. I've said it before but this is the weirdest thread I've ever read on Mumsnet.

Thetruthwillout80 · 14/05/2019 20:05

At least someone rang in. Isn't that the important bit?

mathanxiety · 14/05/2019 20:22

I didn't say she was a SAHM or that SAHMs are dimwits.

Just that (SAHM or no) she was most likely doing the majority of housework in the home (if stats and reports on how housework is usually divided up in the average home are to be believed) and thus considers her 16 yo DD to be one of the kids whom she looks after.

You are confusing my comment on ChocolateWombat's general post on work culture vs home culture in some areas or sections of society with my comment on the specific home.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 14/05/2019 20:29

The mother's instinct to sort it out for her daughter is something most mothers who are not employed might not think twice about. There is no reason for the mother to be aware of the policy of your salon wrt who calls in absences, no reason for this woman to think it would be any different from school because her daughter is most likely still largely her dependent in every sense of the word.

That is what you posted. Nothing to do with what Wombat said.

This is 100% babying a working age teen, and really patronising to mothers.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 14/05/2019 20:31

You are implying that the mother has either never worked, or has forgotten standard practises from when she did work. FFS, she could have worked for 20 years before having DC!

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 14/05/2019 20:32

That sentence completely implies that SAHM are mindless dingbats with not a thought about anything other than their domestic duties.

WombatChocolate · 14/05/2019 20:41

No, the important thing isn't that someone rang in - because in what kind of workplace should an employer be grateful that someone, just anyone rang in. Again, it makes me wonder what kind of limited experience people have if the workplace and the low expectations they have of employee behaviour.

When you take a job and sign a contract (which in most cases will spell out that if you are sick you are expected to phone in personally for it to be an authorised absence - maybe not in contract but employees handbook) you actually take on some serious responsibilities, although some people seem to think it is a very laid back arrangement, especially if the staff are young. You contract to provide a service and to behave in a particular way and if you don't behave in an appropriate way it can negatively affect the business.

Although most people don't call in sick when they aren't, the UK economy suffers from a lot if persistent low level absenteeism - so firms do suffer from people faking illness or calling in with minor ailments. Now no one is saying those who are to sick to work should go in at all, of course they shouldn't. But work places have policies and there are standard expectations to try and reduce this. They aren't draconian but usual practices although I'd think some people on here would be surprised and shocked at some of them, because it's almost as if lots of people think work, especially for the young, is just something you do if it's convenient and having a day off for a slight illness or to go shopping or because you feel tired because working is hard if you're young or have a strict boss, is usual and to be accepted as normal.

It is very normal for workplaces to chart periods of absence and for a worker to be called in to discuss absence if they have more than 2 or 3 individual periods of absence in a year - a period is every phase of absence and includes 1 day. Although this might easily be explained by an employee and accepted by the employer, it prompts monitoring and can lead to disciplinary action if it isn't explainable or acceptable. This often makes workers think twice about taking odd days off when they just feel a bit under the weather.
Likewise some places if work don't pay for periods of sickness of less than 3 days - again it is the persistent individual days taken off here and there by those who struggle to maintain reliability at work that is a real problem for business.
Most places will insisit the employee calls in sick themselves and by a certain time of day for that sickness to be authorised for pay - not calling yourself or by that time will result in non payment.

Yes, people get sick and need time off. No one is quibbling with that and it is important that workplaces deal with that correctly and don't harass workers when they call in sick but have policies for pursuing frequent absence in the right way. At the same time, some employees do take thebpiss and are extremely flaky and a lot of the policies above have come about in response to that - because some people do take the piss, these measures are out in place not to prevent those who are genuinely sick taking time to recover, but to make it more difficult for he pisstakers who cost businesses thousands every year, to take the piss. And if it's too easy to take time off with no consequences or inspection at all, human nature means some people will try to take advantage, or set the bar for illness so low that businesses lose out.

This is why most businesses of any size at all have policies which include things like the employee phoning in as standard. Tiny businesses might not and those which haven't really developed staff polices might not, but those that heavens kften are those that suffer from flaky and unreliable staff - those businesses and those which pay so poorly and have such high turnover that decent staff behaviour is less frequent. Perhaps lots on this thread have worked in such businesses or not worked for a long time, which is why they think it's fine to just get someone else to ring in, and that the business should actually be grateful they even did that.

This girl was 16 so might not have known, but can be expected to understand and follow protocol when it's explained to her. It seems other adults might need that basic protocol explained too and I suspect some would get quite a shock if they went to work for many organisations at exactly what is expected of employees. And if you're in work, it doesn't matter if you're a teenager or 65, basic employee behaviour is expected for the wages paid. Those expectations do have to be made clear though.

mathanxiety · 14/05/2019 20:50

That is still not a statement that this is a sahm.

If the mother is employed she might still see her DD as a dependent because of her age and the fact that she is still living at home and eating meals that are cooked for her, wearing clothes that are washed for her - as most 16 year olds do - and thanks to her general role in the family might still feel that it is up to her to make a call to sort out something for the DD. The instinct to try to help out a child remains no matter what the circumstances, and the habit formed by being the only acceptable caller-in when children are in school is a hard one to shed sometimes.

I did many long years as a SAHM myself. I am in no way denigrating SAHMs.

mathanxiety · 14/05/2019 20:58

It is very normal for workplaces to chart periods of absence and for a worker to be called in to discuss absence if they have more than 2 or 3 individual periods of absence in a year - a period is every phase of absence and includes 1 day. Although this might easily be explained by an employee and accepted by the employer, it prompts monitoring and can lead to disciplinary action if it isn't explainable or acceptable. This often makes workers think twice about taking odd days off when they just feel a bit under the weather

Yes, and this also causes workers to show up for work when they are genuinely very ill and then everyone gets sick and productivity suffers.

Sometimes employers/managers prefer to cut off their noses to spite their faces. They prefer that everyone panders to their need for control and visibility when actually many workers who are ill and contagious could work from home.

Presenteeism can often be more expensive than absenteeism, and there are increasingly examples of colleagues punishing their peers when they spread illness.

www.bbc.com/capital/story/20190227-how-to-tell-your-boss-youre-sick-and-why-you-should

AuntMarch · 14/05/2019 21:08

I actually think having your mum ring up to arrange a days holiday, as it seems she thought was happening, is worse than having her call in sick for you.

AuntMarch · 14/05/2019 21:11

I think the update makes it worse!
Having your mum call in sick for you isn't brilliant, but if the first time a gentle reminder (as OP suggested herself) would suffice.
But having your mum call in because you've forgotten to request a day off, to go shopping, is pretty lame. Would be more understandable if something has been paid for, like a concert, but still - call yourself!

AuntMarch · 14/05/2019 21:11

Sorry, first post looked like it failed!

WombatChocolate · 14/05/2019 21:21

I agree that some policies can lead to presenteism and some workers will attend work when really they are too ill to do so.

It is a difficult one isn't it and important to see it with balance, not just from an employer and employee viewpoint - and lots of people struggle to see it from both sides. With no policies at all and it being very easy to call in sick, with no explanation or consequence, no matter how frequently it happens, some workers will inevitably take the piss. I'd think everyone can see this will be and has been an inevitable consequence.

So what should employers do to minimise this? To do nothing and to continue to allow all workers to easily take time off with no explanation or follow up would be daft and not good business practice. Exact approaches have developed in response to the particular problems in particular industries.

  • those industries which have particularly significant issues with regular absenteeism tend to have the stricter polices, such as no pay for the first 2 days of illness. These are often low paid jobs which people don't enjoy much and take more time off from. The polices have reduced absenteeism, but the downside is some presenteism when people are sick too. It's difficult to improve absenteeism without creating some presenteism too. Like most things, becaus some people a use the system, approaches have to be brought in to deal with those piss takers, but unfortunately the non pisstakers also are affected too.
  • industries with less serious issues of absenteeism tend to have less punitive policies. They still usually require employees to phone in themselves (and most don't have any problem with it and see it just as a courtesy and part of being a responsible grown up) and may well follow up more than X bouts of absence in a year, but probably don't stop paying for any short absences. Because the issues are less frequent, the need to react harshly isn't needed so much.

Lots of people feel cross about harsh employers with their sickness policies, but they forget that frequent absenteeism is a real issue in lots of industries. Lots of employees don't feel. A strong commitment to go to work on a regular basis but feel a day off every fortnight is quite normal and even an entitlement.

ithinkmycatistryingtokillme · 14/05/2019 21:40

It's threads like these that make me worry about dd1s'(17) future employability. She has chronic asthma(was hospitalised less than 2 months ago after catching a simp!e cold), migraines and problematic periods to say the least. Combined with her aspergers we struggle to get her sixth form attendance above 90% even though she determinedly goes in on days when she really isn't well enough.

Darayan20 · 14/05/2019 21:57

I wouldn't work for you even for one million a day you sound horrible

mathanxiety · 14/05/2019 22:02

Absenteeism that is actually a case of taking the piss can be improved without recourse to punitive policies on absence.

There are more ways of tackling absenteeism than by assuming the problem is feckless employees taking the piss and addressing what is perceived as the obvious problem.

If absenteeism is a persistent issue then management should look at the culture in the workplace and seek to improve it before writing off employees, who after all must have seemed promising at time of hiring.

Managers should examine whether employees can work with a longer leash, whether flexible schedules can offer a sense of empowerment and can result in increased productivity. Stress arising from a sense of disempowerment can lead to disengagement from the company and absenteeism. A way to reduce stress is to offer more scheduled days off with pay. It may seem counter intuitive, but actually the acknowledgement that employees have lives outside of their work lives goes a long way to creating a sense of loyalty in employees. Occasional positive feedback is another way to promote feelings of engagement.

A culture that fosters a sense of engagement with the company can be created. Not by team building days (especially not during time required at weekends or evenings) but by the very oblique means of treating people like adults. Sometimes less willy waving by management can have excellent results.

mathanxiety · 14/05/2019 22:05

Absenteeism that is actually a case of taking the piss can be improved without recourse to punitive policies on absence. = several mashed together sentences thanks to not pressing ctrl z enough.

Should read Absenteeism is often assumed to be a case of taking the piss but that assumption needs to be examined, and results can be improved without recourse to punitive policies on absence.

ozymandiusking · 14/05/2019 22:16

This reply has been deleted

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KungFuPandaWorks · 14/05/2019 22:38

ozy maybe you should read the thread. And calling someone a cow isn't very polite is it.

You wouldn't work for me for 1 million? I think you'd need your head testing.

OP posts:
BadLad · 14/05/2019 23:38

LOL at the madness on this thread.

differentnameforthis · 15/05/2019 01:41

You know people get others to call in sick for them?

1] They physically can't do it themselves
or
2] They feel intimidated having to do so.

I HATE calling in sick at work. Because my boss, although lovely to work for mostly, has the most judgemental tone in her voice when anyone calls in sick that you feel like you are lying even when you are not. And on top of feeling sick, no one needs that shit.

differentnameforthis · 15/05/2019 01:49

mother yes, I spied on her. My spying tactics are that great she sent out a Snapchat and I intercepted it. Backs up my point nicely.

SundaeMorning · 15/05/2019 02:02

YABU. Does it really matter? She's too ill to work and you were informed. I think you are being a bit harsh.

Nishky · 15/05/2019 06:46

Thank god Wombat is here to explain the ‘world of work’ to us idiots hey?