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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

smacking her kids- intervene?!

79 replies

Ilovetakeaways · 12/05/2019 08:47

Sister has two kids 7 and 9. She is struggling to parent her children, often in the mornings and bedtimes. There is always some altercation. She is living with our father and our other sister at the moment due to renovations at her property.
When I visit I hear her stomping, shouting, youngest screams whilst having tantrums and just terrible disorder. My sister swears, grabs them and god knows what else. I was so shocked and disgusted to hear this going on but didn’t intervene. My sister goes mad if anyone tries to intervene and says it’s undermining her parenting.
I love those children to bits and fear something bad will happen when they move out. My other sister and father are fed up of it and say she’s abusing the children.
I want to discuss this with her and will do so as Those poor children should not be going through this. I know I’m being unreasonable by not saying something to her. Guess I just wanted advice.

OP posts:
Whoopstheregomyinsides · 12/05/2019 09:11

It IS abusing behaviour and she needs to see that and then be helped. The other adults there need to step up too. The children will be confused and frightened.

SoWhyDontYouKillMe · 12/05/2019 09:11

Thing is my kids are angels when they’re with extended family but sometimes they can be little shites with me. I thought that was quite normal. I wouldn’t disregard what she says about them being naughty. She’s probably at the end of her tether doing it alone and trying to discipline them (in the wrong way).

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 12/05/2019 09:12

**Yelling and sometimes smacking does not constitute abuse

Erm .... yes it does. And if that's how you behave with your children then you are also abusive. Or are you just trying to be provocative**

No it doesn’t, your personal opinion does not override the law, physical chastisement (smacking) is lawful, even if you disagree with this.

Personally I parent a different way, however others do use smacking as a form
of punishment

As you’ve said it’s mostly morning and bedtimes is there a way your sister would allow you to help with the routines?

BigRedLondonBus · 12/05/2019 09:13

I actually wouldn’t jump straight to reporting it Inliverpool1 but from experience as it happened to me saying ss wont be interested just simply isn’t true.

DoneLikeAKipper · 12/05/2019 09:15

@Inliverpool1, do you think abuse is just severe injuries? If a parent is constantly losing their temper with their children, it can have long term effects on their behaviour and mental health. It affects their entire lives, either they become disruptive or withdrawn. You say it depends on what sex the child is? Why, you think boys are naughtier so need more physical discipline? No wonder they grow up thinking they can push and hurt others as they grow up, it’s not ‘boys being boys’, it’s learned behaviour. All because of ignorance like yours.

Fernicktylo · 12/05/2019 09:16

Do they have a Dad to protect them?

TyrannosaurusBex · 12/05/2019 09:17

Please intervene. I have no relationship with my extended family because they stood by and watched how my mother treated me.

MrsMaisel · 12/05/2019 09:19

Gosh I wish someone had intervened when i was a kid. Though after many years of this, someone did finally... it was a doctor who my parents took me to see about an eating disorder I developed. I overheard him laying the blame at their feet, telling them they clearly were putting too much pressure on me as a kid (he wouldn't have known about the yelling and smacking and abuse). Think it scared them. Decent guy.

Original poster
Ilovetakeaways · 12/05/2019 09:22

Fernicktylo- he sees them but a bit of a waste of space

OP posts:
HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 12/05/2019 09:22

BigRed, as an previous social worker, not much SW can do, smacking (reasonable punishment) is not illegal, (unless you mark the child) Hmm

Hopefully tho laws and legislation will change in the immediate future. childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/the-law-on-smacking-children/

TooTrueToBeGood · 12/05/2019 09:22

Actually, smacking is illegal in some countries and more are looking to make it so. Quite right too. It is completely unnecessary and also illogical. It is not legal to hit another adult (other than in self-defence) so why do we perpetuate this nonsense that it's acceptable to hit the physically weakest and most fragile? We also, or should, teach our children that hitting and violence is wrong yet smacking gives them a completely contrary example.

MuthaFunka61 · 12/05/2019 09:23

It seems that the family needs help.
Smacking can cause MH difficulties as it causes a disregulation in the nervous system.
I've not enough time right now to read through the full thread,but will be back soon.
A referral to CAMHS is necessary.

TheFaerieQueene · 12/05/2019 09:23

I’m amazed that posters are using using ‘it is legal’ as their moral compass. The law isn’t always right.

Slavery was legal - did that make it right?

Hitting your child is abuse and trying to justify it speaks volumes. Your children should be your most precious things. I bet you don’t throw your iPad around!

Littlechocola · 12/05/2019 09:26

@Inliverpool1 you worked in a nursery?

BigRedLondonBus · 12/05/2019 09:29

I was still visited by a sw to answer the allegation, she told me it was a child protection concern, my child didn’t have a single mark on him. Of course I told them that it wasn’t true and the case was closed but I wonder if it would have been closed if it was true? The sw told me they have a duty investigate these kind of allegations within 5 days of the referral

Missingstreetlife · 12/05/2019 09:33

She needs support, maybe parenting class to get some new methods

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 12/05/2019 09:34

I’m amazed that posters are using using ‘it is legal’ as their moral compass. The law isn’t always right.

You can speak for yourself TheFearie, personal opinion and my own personal morals still don’t overrule the law.

Nice sweeping generalisation comments you’ve absurdly assumed on my parenting based on one post Hmm

SimonJT · 12/05/2019 09:36

Your sister sounds very much like my mother, I have no idea how these children will feel when they are older, but for me the hardest thing to cope with was knowing that people who were supposed to love me did nothing but what her abuse me.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 12/05/2019 09:37

BigRed, I’ve closed lots of cases where a parent has smacked their child, as it was within the guidelines as reasonable punishment, however that would be closed after investigations were taken.

Some remain open as there was other migrating factors to consider.

Anyway getting off topic, I still think the sister needs help.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 12/05/2019 09:41

If this is all going on under your Dads roof surely he has the right to say he doesn’t like it? Face grabbing is not on. As many posters have said who knows what goes on when there aren’t any witnesses. And if the children are behaving badly they are just responding with learnt behaviour from their mum and seeing that SHE is able to get away with it. Poor kids, they are still so young.

BigRedLondonBus · 12/05/2019 09:42

Ok thanks for that, was baffled how ss apparently didn’t attend to a baby being burned by cigarettes for 4 weeks but ran round to mine within 5 days so in my experience they are interested. They may think the sister needs extra support which is what it sounds like but like I said I wouldn’t jump straight to reporting it without trying to help first.

SnuggyBuggy · 12/05/2019 09:43

It sounds like a very dysfunctional situation and it probably needs outside intervention. Could you persuade her to go to her GP?

Springwalk · 12/05/2019 09:45

Yes op you need to intervene, you know this, because for you she seems out of control and to be losing it on a daily basis at least.

Sit her down, tell her exactly what you have said to us, in the gentlest way possible explain you are worried the children be investigated if this were to carry on. You have to be prepared for her to take this very badly op, but you can not stand by as an adult, and as someone that cares for the children and let this continue. Are there other members of the family that could help you out with this conversation?

Parenting classes would help her, and also perhaps some proper support. If she is getting to the point of crisis management of her children every day she clearly isn't coping. She needs help to parent properly, help to manage, and maybe she is in desperate need of a break?

Where is the children's father? Someone at the end of their tether on a permanent basis is not safe. You absolutely can not ignore this.

Cornettoninja · 12/05/2019 09:51

Obviously she needs some sort of support, clearly she’s going through a particularly stressful time and on that I really feel for her.

BUT screaming and smacking her children constantly is an awful way for them to live and between the three of you somebody should be stepping up and letting these children know it’s not acceptable and people will protect them. Ideally whoever is witnessing the behaviour should remove the children and take over whatever task has set her off.

You’re all adults and you shouldn’t allow yourself to be intimidated by her too. An open and honest conversation needs to be had with her and practical support agreed. You said that she’s already getting it from you so in that case it’ll be harder because I think people get in a circular way of thinking and convince themselves they’re hard done by and unable to see what they’ve got.

It’s clear she’s not going to take kindly to intervention but she needs it and hopefully in retrospect will appreciate it. If she’s utterly opposed to proper help and support on those terms I would make it clear that you would be seeking assistance for her more formally through the children’s school.

mabelsgarden · 12/05/2019 09:54

Yes of course smacking your kids is wrong, and it really pisses me off when some people say 'I had a good hiding when I was a kid, and it did me no 'arm!' Many things were 'accepted' many decades ago that are not now, because we realise how wrong they are; be that comments about the colour of someone's skin, slapping yer woman, sexism, racism, raping your wife, or smacking your kids. (Or, as someone said upthread, slavery!) Hmm

And 'there is nothing wrong with a gentle slap' is utter crap. You're still hitting them, so stop sugar-coating it. As has been said, it IS abuse, and people denying it are often justifying their own behaviour, and failings as a parent. (And you are failing as a parent if you have to resort to physical violence against a child to 'make them behave.')

@ilovetakeaways

Aside from all this, your sister needs help, as she is clearly struggling very badly with her children, and she needs help. For some reason, she isn't coping. Is there a dad on the scene? What part does he play? As some posters have said, your sister screaming at, and hitting her children is awful, and it IS abuse. It needs intervention, and soon!

And to the poster @Inliverpool1 who said people are being 'hysterical' by saying smacking a child is tantamount to abuse??? Well, words fail me. Please tell me you don't have children! No wonder society is so fucked up, with so many aggressive people, with attitudes like yours. Hmm

A few other posters on here need to give their head a wobble too, if they think whacking a child for being 'naughty' is OK. I despair for humanity really do. It's 2019, and people still think this is OK? Confused

It's time it was outlawed, like in other countries.

@TooGoodToBeTrue

Actually, smacking is illegal in some countries and more are looking to make it so. Quite right too. It is completely unnecessary and also illogical. It is not legal to hit another adult (other than in self-defence) so why do we perpetuate this nonsense that it's acceptable to hit the physically weakest and most fragile?

Amen to that! Some people are happy to hit their own CHILDREN, when they are 'naughty,' but I bet they'd dial 999 immediately if any adult hit them, (even if it was their own partner.) How on earth can people think hitting a child is OK? I just can't get my head around it, or the type of person you must be to hit your own child! Confused

@Springwalk

Sit her down, tell her exactly what you have said to us, in the gentlest way possible explain you are worried the children be investigated if this were to carry on. You have to be prepared for her to take this very badly op, but you can not stand by as an adult, and as someone that cares for the children and let this continue. Are there other members of the family that could help you out with this conversation?

Agree with this too. ^ It needs intervention for sure. Before one of the children is badly hurt.