To have a 5th child

[Flowerflow]

I have 4 children ages 13, 9, 8 and 4 (5 in a few days), recently DP and I have been discussing have another child, he completely up for it but I'm still a little unsure. I have a few concerns like we currently live in a 4 bedroom house, oldest two share and youngest two have their own bedrooms. 8 year old is the only boy and if were to have another boy they would probably share but there would be a big age gap and DS wouldn't be impressed. That or we move to a bigger house which we might not be able to afford where we currently but would be able to if we move slightly further away. Another concern would be there'll be 5/6 between them and our current youngest so new baby might feel left out or the odd one out although not all our children are very close in age. I'm also unsure about going through pregnancy again, I've never really enjoyed it, baby, toddler stage and so I'll happily go through again but pregnancy I'm willing to go through not exactly happily though. On the other hand I'd love to have a fifth child and these concerns and problems can be worked through

@HBStowe why's that hit a nerve? That wasn't directly at you?

www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Lol at the environmental frothers, who probably all use plastic, drive cars and go on holiday in aeroplanes.

Exactly my point upthread

Nobody can call anybody else for ruining the planet if they’re playing their own part in ruining it.
You’d have to stop living in a modern world completely before you’d have any room to talk, but then you wouldn’t have the internet to log on the MN and moan about it all

Lol at the environmental frothers, who probably all use plastic, drive cars and go on holiday in aeroplanes.

But having an additional child is exponentially worse for the environment than all of those things combined.

It's like saying how dare you care about gun control when you own a butter knife.

And it assumes people on this thread aren't already environmentally conscious in their own lives.

It doesn’t need to be directed at me for me to realise how incredibly stupid and entitled it is.

I hope the people saying ‘do what you like, who gives a shit what the impact is’ appreciate that when irreversible damage is done to the world, and mass species extinction occurs, and there is famine and drought, that it happened because millions of people behaved exactly as you suggest and decided that responsibility was for other people and not them. It will be too late, but I hope you really experience that awareness nonetheless.

Nobody can call anybody else for ruining the planet if they’re playing their own part in ruining it. You’d have to stop living in a modern world completely before you’d have any room to talk, but then you wouldn’t have the internet to log on the MN and moan about it all

Fucking hell, it gets worse. Scientists working on climate change also live in the modern world. Literally every one of us in a developed society also does. So nobody can ever mention or raise awareness of global warming? How does this argument possibly stack up?

When you remove people you don't think are "worthy" enough, who is left to tackle these issues?

Nobody can call anybody else for ruining the planet if they’re playing their own part in ruining it.

Having a child is environmentally worse than all of those other things mentioned, combined. And I'm betting that families like yours also go on planes, use lots of plastic(well you have more children so this is extremely likely) so odds are you are much worse than everyone else who goes on planes etc. because you also have so many children.

The number of people on this thread arguing that because everyone has some impact on the world, there is absolutely no point in anyone trying to reduce that impact, is insane. How are you supposed to challenge that level of ignorance? How can you possibly make someone who views the world that way see sense?

It fills me with absolute horror because it truly shows that no matter how bad things are, some people will resolutely refuse to care.

Winenow, this thread is not about pregnant women or women trying for babies is it? So stop trying to change the subject.

Just for the record, DH has been vegetarian for over 40 years. I have been vegetarian for over 35 years and am now almost vegan.

We do have a car but we live rurally so need one. I use the bus a lot even though it only runs every 2 hours and stops at 6pm.

I have flown a total of 4 times (so 8 single trips) and never long haul. We recycle everything possible, have cut our plastic use drastically and don't waste any food at all

It also horrifies me because these are the people who are having large families and presumably passing on their selfish disregard for the environment to their children.

My FIL has eight, MIL had seven.

Crack on OP. Hilarious that "one more" wont harm the planet. But it's group not singular mentality, it's billions not singles...

Nobody can call anybody else for ruining the planet if they’re playing their own part in ruining it.

Just what everyone else has said, really. How does one square this with actually producing five consumers?

Of course we're all ruining the planet, that's what humans en masse do. That's why we need to be sensible about our procreation, FFS.

WoWsers16. so you wouldn't think about the environment or population only whether you wanted more children!

I don't know whether to feel sad at your ignorance or angry

I don’t drive (have a licence but much prefer walking and public transport so have never bought a car), have one child, have gone plastic free and don’t have any MDF furniture. I eat a largely plant based diet and have weaned my family off meat to a significant degree (WIP). I shop in organic shops and buy from family owned and ecologically sound businesses as far as I possibly can...

@Ellisandra

No that's not actually clear at all. She says £40 per lesson, per child, per week. Yes that does total £2000 a year.
I wasn't aware that all swimming lessons cost £8 per child everywhere in the UK.
Is that probably what she means?... Yes, but that is not what she said, regardless of the first sentence.

The number of people on this thread arguing that because everyone has some impact on the world, there is absolutely no point in anyone trying to reduce that impact, is insane. How are you supposed to challenge that level of ignorance? How can you possibly make someone who views the world that way see sense?

And this is why we absolutely cannot rely upon goodwill to repair the current state of affairs.

The planet is essentially subsidising all this feckless consumption, because no one has to pay to put it right when they buy (for example) a shirt made from cotton grown on deforested land with shedloads of pesticides that produce a toxic run-off that destroys the watertable... it all just remains damaged and here we have ostensibly educated Westerners suggesting that we just need China to stop polluting so much!

Very few could actually afford five children if they weren't going to Aldi and buying a kilo of beef mince for £3.

The swimming lesson tangent is less than interesting.

so you wouldn't think about the environment or population only whether you wanted more children!

Got to say, in the real world outside of mumsnet, I’ve never heard the environment mentioned in this way when parents discuss ttc. I really don’t think it’s most parents’ first thought when thinking of having a 2nd 3rd etc. Makes me a bit to be honest - I know a couple who proudly proclaim they are childless to save the environment and indeed do environmental “holidays” - racking up hundreds of thousands of air miles each year. How does that stack up?

My view may be coloured though - I went to a secondary school in the 80’s that was very into “saving the environment” - told us all to never learn to drive and we must all use bicycles as oil would completely run out by 2017! Which also doesn’t really stack up with the mumsnet mantra I so often see encouraging non drivers to learn to drive ASAP.

Thousands of people die everyday compared to how many babies are born in a day. It all evens out in the end.

Are you being deliberately ridiculous? If it "all events out in the end" then the population wouldn't be growing. The daily birth rate far outstrips the daily death rate, hence a growing population. Dear lord.

And I'm betting that families like yours also go on planes, use lots of plastic(well you have more children so this is extremely likely) so odds are you are much worse than everyone else who goes on planes etc. because you also have so many children

We haven’t actually been abroad no, but those planes are gonna fly with or without big families using them. So the amount of children I have is kind of irrelevant in that argument.

When it comes to plastic, I may use more plastic than a smaller family. A smaller family might use just as much or even more depending on their lifestyle. Who knows. I don’t really think every household counts every piece of plastic they use. We don’t have a car though, which a smaller family who uses less plastic may have. So swings and roundabouts really.

@AlaskanOilBaron, just want to say you've made some great posts in this thread.

2 is this magical number that won't be doing any harm to the planet - if you're that concerned surely don't have any?

Maybe consider the possibility of a child with extra needs, or health problems op
It's not always guaranteed a child is healthy.

How would that factor in too life?
💐