AIBU for wondering why the government assumes 12 year olds don’t need childcare?

[HiddenPineapple]

Hi folks,
Looking at Tax Free Childcare and I see it stops when a child turns 12.
www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
Can I ask what the heck working parents with 12 year olds are expected to do in the summer and why there is so little provision for that tricky bit where they’re pretty independent but you really don’t want them sitting around the house all day on their own?
DS is 12 and it looks like summer care will cost me £125 a week. Normally I’d apply accrued childcare vouchers, but the summer camps are not registered for childcare vouchers. The ones that are registered won’t take him because he’s 12.

I think most 12 yr olds could be left on their own for the summer holidays (unless SEN). They should be able to entertain themselves constructively. I loved being left alone for school holidays at that age. It was lovely.

Sports clubs an option? They seem. I take over kids. Or a residential camp, like PGL take childcare vouchers. Mine are also going on Scout camp for a week and I know others go away on church camps.

My 11yo is sensible and mature so could quite safely be left alone. But I wouldn't want to leave her to her own devices from 8.30am to 5.30pm every day during the holidays. When I was that age my mum worked term time only and many of my friends' mums didn't work so the situation didn't arise.

I loved being left alone for school holidays at that age. It was lovely.

I did too, but I still like lots of alone time. My little brother absolutely hated it and used to beg me not to go out unless he was going out too - he was still doing this at 15 and he still doesn't like his own company. He also used to sneak in and sleep on the floor of my room - under great sufferance from me - until I started totally refusing (probably when I was about 12) as he hated sleeping alone. It's a personality thing, and perhaps also what you're used to - I guess I was more used to playing independently as a little child, whereas I'd always been there for him.

This is why I work, and will continue to work term-time. Yes they are able to be left for the odd day, but much better to have company/ be able to go for days out/ have someone there. I don't think 12 year olds are beyond being silly and I certainly wouldn't be happy leaving them watching TV all day/ with unsupervised access to the internet etc. If there's an adult around they can still go out locally on their own/ ghost to friends) have friends over but there's also someone there to check in with and to go out/ stay in with if they want. I used to walk myself home from school and have an hour or two on my own at that age but I wouldn't have liked being on my own all day especially not for weeks on end. I appreciate not everyone can work term time though and there is a gap. Breaking up leave/ having friends help out/ the odd day at clubs etc maybe as a balance?

@lovelyupnorth the OP is paying for a her kid so I don’t get what your snidey comment is about. Also I do see an issue with children being unsupervised for 4/6 weeks during summer with little adult interaction. Going to a friends house is relying on another parent to parent your child if necessary also adding to their food bill. Relative, you are assuming the OP has relatives nearby or even relatives that will help out. Parents can’t do right for doing wrong it seems, or should that be Mother’s.

Pp are correct re registration being the issue - I'm in Scotland but holiday only camps (rather than holiday camps run by after school clubs or nurseries) are generally able to slide through without registering with the Care Inspectorate. That means no registration number - which is a requirement to register for tax free childcare or voucher schemes.

It might be worth investigating whether any after school clubs (proper registered ones) will take 12 year olds. They might be more expensive though, as complying with the regulations isn't cheap and they have to comply with staffing ratios which the unregistered people don't.

What do you suggest then OP?

Full time daily childcare provided/funded/subsidised for every child up to what, age 16? 18?

Will this mandatory?

How do you propose to pay for it?

Surely this is a matter of location as much as anything else? My DC were not interested in going to holiday clubs at age 12 and they are mostly full of much younger children. DH and I split our leave to cover odd days through the holiday. They spent a lot of the rest of it out with friends. And that was genuinely "out", no relying on other parents. But we live in a big town with buses, they have school friends within walking and cycling distance and they also have local friends who they'd played out with since about age 8 . If we were in the middle of nowhere with no similar aged DC, or your DC aren't used to this level of freedom, I can see it would be much harder. But in that scenario, I imagine the teenage years are pretty tough anyway in terms of socialising. Reminds me a bit of the recent thread where the OP lived rurally with poor public transport and her adult DC who were home from uni kept asking for lifts as they had limited options otherwise.

YANBU. All these suggestions usually apply to people in cities or the 1980s when people still lived near (and/or had alive still) grandparents and relatives to provide open houses.

I see some kids getting up to a whole lot of trouble being left alone age 12 from 8-6, especially with online access.

On MN, you're not supposed to charge your older teen or young adult who's an apprentice rent or digs, but you're supposed to leave a 12-year-old home for 40+ hours a week.

IF you have any private schools near you see if they do any activities, our local one runs sports weeks which run a little longer than a school day would Andy I think they accept childcare vouchers. Also residential activity camps usually do too.

How flexible is your employer? Instead of taking 10 days holiday, could you take 20 half days? That way, by the time he got up in the morning there would only be a few hours until you got home at lunch time. He would be learning independence skills in short bursts, always knowing that it won't be too long till you got home.

I see some kids getting up to a whole lot of trouble being left alone age 12 from 8-6, especially with online access.

I have kids of a similar age and it's not the getting into trouble which would worry me. They just wouldn't be happy to be left on their own from breakfast time to 6pm, every day for the duration of the holidays. The odd day is fine. But then the novelty wears off and they are bored, looking for something to do and wishing there was either a parent around, or a club to go to.

I think because most kids have access to computers/tv/gaming, it's considered ok to leave them as there is stuff to do.
When I was that age it was out & about on bikes/playing outside/in gardens/at the park.

But someones parent, was always about to go to if needed.

Try having disabled children who need 1:1 care and are over 12 years.

It really makes me angry, I have never been able to get child care as my daughter needs 1:1, now she’s 13 years old and I’m still unable to work full time due to having no childcare during school holidays. But it’s ok, the government will pay me £60 a week Carers Allowance to stay at home 😐😐😐.

Not all 12 year olds can be left alone, I’m sure most can’t be left for 8-10 hours a day.

It’s not necessary for their safety so why should the tax payer pay for it?

I used to work on subsidised summer schemes that ran up to 12 unfortunately most of these were all list during the first wave of council cuts its a shame as they were so popular with working parents and the kids lived them

Why should the tax payer pay for anything

I fully agree with you OP

It is not right to leave a 12yo (occ only 11yo) on their own all day for the whole of the 6 weeks.
People who say that they will just go and spend time with friends are naive.
Because that means that either you basically rely on someone else to look after your child OR that child is also in their own and leaving two 11~12yo in their own devices for the whole day isn’t a very good idea either....

The system doesn’t even make sense in that most people wouodnt dare giving that much independence to their year 6 child but suddenly, they are supposed to be able to spend the whole day in their own, 5 days a week, prepare their lunch, go out and take the bus, decide of it’s appropriate to drop at friends and what not. When a year before mum wouod still be organising play dates and wouod expect a text/call every 15mins if they were out in their own

@BogglesGoggles because
It helps working parents who are contributing towards the country
it helps raise the next generation and keep them safe so they can be viable members of the society who will contribute towards the country.
It was available under the previous scheme.
I also imagine the cost to the government who is shelling out over £50 million for ferry services secured with companies who didn’t have ferries is actually pretty negligible.

And the cost of bloody crossrail

Exactly, BWatch!

12 year olds can be trusted to stay home alone. No need for subsidy from tax payers.

Most summer camps take childcare vouchers. My DS used to go to either SCL or Super Camps. After year 7 though you'll find they really don't want to go though and would much prefer to be at home alone.

I am sure it won't be the case for OPs child. But people who are saying the government shouldn't be involved.

Bored teens with nothing to do but get into trouble can become a major social problem for everyone. I don't think it's a coincidence that the London riots started in September.

Maybe look at residential camps. Pgl is pricy but will take your vouchers. Things like army cadets often run very subsidised camps if you are a member.