AIBU for wondering why the government assumes 12 year olds don’t need childcare?

[HiddenPineapple]

Hi folks,
Looking at Tax Free Childcare and I see it stops when a child turns 12.
www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare
Can I ask what the heck working parents with 12 year olds are expected to do in the summer and why there is so little provision for that tricky bit where they’re pretty independent but you really don’t want them sitting around the house all day on their own?
DS is 12 and it looks like summer care will cost me £125 a week. Normally I’d apply accrued childcare vouchers, but the summer camps are not registered for childcare vouchers. The ones that are registered won’t take him because he’s 12.

@Silverwalk my local leisure pool states children 8 and under must be supervised by someone 16 and over, i would never dream of leaving her alone at night, as there's 52 week's in a year and she's left for 3 it's never caused a problem, me or my husband's annual work leave doesn't cover the whole school holiday's, i didn't go full time until she went to secondary school, if the education department would spread the 6 week's over the year (which has been suggested) maybe it wouldn't be such a problem for parent's

Actually, we live with in a big city with excellent transport links.
Unfortunately because he goes to a large school with a wide catchment area he has friends who live in remote villages that do not have great public transport links.
The big city only allows so much loitering in comic book stores and in fact some places turf out minors.

I’m aware that in Canada 12 years old can babysit, but even in Canada you would not usually leave a 12 year old alone for 10 hours.

I was fortuante that I was working from home by the time my son got to that awkward age. The local leisure centre used to run sessions each day - all sorts of activities - for up to 14 year olds and you could book on the whole series or individual sessions, which worked well for us. However, when they asked me to provide a password to collect him when he was 11 (in the summer between primary and secondary schools) I decided that it probably wasn't quite the right place for an almost secondary aged child!

In Canada apparently 12 years old can babysit, and spend all day on their own every day for six weeks?!

Who would ever leave a baby with a twelve year old???

It is interesting reading this thread, the views are range so much. Most people think 12 is too young to leave on their own day in and day out. I am also of the view that if they start hanging out in parks etc with friends at this age they can quickly find themselves in trouble.

Unless you live in a big town and city (and by its very definition it then becomes less safe) then bus services are pretty non existent. Children of this age can find themselves cut off from going out full stop.

I for one would not want my children lounging in bed all day watching TV. I would feel really bad about this. I would be worried about what they were watching, forget supervising internet use it is impossible if you are not there (what about grooming etc no matter how much advice they been given by us and the school) and I know my dc would be very very lonely most of all.

I would be very worried if a friend's child was left like that every day, and would hope their parents where possible would choose camps/clubs/friends etc to try and minimise their time at home alone.

My sister during the uni holidays did 'babysitting' for young teens. Her job was basically to make sure they ate, be available to drive them to friend's houses and make sure the house didn't burn down! Think she did 4 hours a day 10-2pmish. Another alternative would be a summer au pair.

I think you are totally right that a 12 year old shouldn't be left alone for that long.

Think you’re being a bit literal with your definition of babysitting, Spring.

It is a tough age, ds would sleep in late then be out with friends all day so I wasnt really needed. But at 12 I would still want an adult within 20 mins incase of emergencies (like the broken arm from coming off bicycle last year). Costs us a fortune as dh is self employed and doesn't work alot of the summer hols so he's around, but it's not really a surprise kids cost money!!

Well my 12 yo couldn't be left on her own all summer. She does have SEN but in theory could go to the park on her own. Only she is very anxious and she would hate it.

She has 9 weeks off this year (state school). DH is off for 2 weeks, we have 1 week all off when we will go away, 1 week already booked at PGL, 2 weeks already booked at Kings Camps, still have 3 weeks to cover. I can only take a week off in the summer because I have to cover Xmas (3 weeks) and 1 of the Easter weeks.

We are very lucky here that there are several different providers; a couple of national chains, the local Uni, a couple of private companies, and all of them take vouchers. There are more specialist things available but they don't take vouchers and cost a fortune.

As a 12 yo back in the 70s I'm sure I didn't get looked after, except that my DM only worked during term time so would have been home. I can remember feeling quite surprised that a school-friend was taken everywhere by car when I normally went to town on a Saturday on the bus on my own. BUT it was a different time.

There wasn't anywhere near the traffic that there is now, and as a pp mentioned, people looked out for you. I've said before, if I did anything wrong in public my DM would know about it before I got back. Mrs Bloggs from up the road would have been straight round to tell tales on me. People felt they had the right to step in and interfere, whereas now they don't. I'm not confident that people would look out for my DD in the same way.

I left dd for a whole summer when she was 11yo, just prior to starting secondary school. 5 days a week 7am till 4:30pm. She was ok, house was a tip! She watched a load of tv, played on the computer, read. She loved it.

I get you OP. DS2 is 13. DH and I work 45 mins away in opposite directions. We live semi rurally on a fast country lane with no footpath, only one neighbour (who is out and about or away herself), and no family in the county. Absolutely none. It was much easier when they were little. Work have been great and I can take my leave in hours (so a lot of half days) and DH can occasionally work from home but I too would not be happy to leave him for ten hours a day five days a week.

How many people in this thread actually leave their 12 year olds alone in the holiday?
I do. I'm a single parent working full time with the statutory minimum annual leave, 17 days after bank holidays and the week between Christmas and New Year. I've done my best but DS will still be alone for two weeks and two half weeks this summer.

Wind, do you know any teenagers you could bung £20 to go in a couple of days and play xbox with him?

I don't think anyone is really supporting the idea that a 12 year old should be left alone for 9 hours a day 5 days a week, just that they don't need "childcare" to prevent that. Only a very small minority of people live in tiny villages with no peers in the village, no friends in walking/cycling range such that the kids would be trapped alone.

For every other kid, they'd meet up with friends and do stuff, or get themselves to shorter activities, so wouldn't be alone for all that time, they just wouldn't be under continuous supervision.

Unless say their friends live in a tiny village and there are no activities to get to etc unless they like sport.

Wind, do you know any teenagers you could bung £20 to go in a couple of days and play xbox with him? He plays with his friends online, walks or rides into town, meets up with friends for activities, has them over for a couple of hours or goes to their houses. He gets the train to see friends out of town. So he's not alone alone all day, just that I'm working and he's being left to his own devices!

I too would not be happy to leave him for ten hours a day five days a week.

But you don't need full-time childcare to avoid that situation.

• Reciprocal arrangements with friends.
• The occasional day camp/sports camp type thing.
• They can arrange to go out with friends too - swimming, cinema etc. which will take up a half day here and there. A 12yo is more than capable of getting a bus, or a parent can pick up/drop off if you return the favour another day.

I spent my summer holidays alone from age 12 and so did all my friends - this was in the 2000's. Day camps existed but they were very expensive and geared up for younger children. I went to one until I was 11 and was the oldest there by a year or two - although it apparently catered for 14 year olds, there were never any who actually went. It was very much geared towards small children. Aside from that, there wasn't really any other option unless you had a parent at home - and let's be real, what 12yo wants to spend all their holidays with their mum?

Organised activities have always been my idea of hell and thankfully my parents' saw sense and didn't insist on paying for me to attend and be utterly miserable once I turned twelve.

I spent most of the time with my friends - we went to the park, went to the local pool, went to the cinema, hung out at each other's houses/McDonald's/the arcades, went bowling, played computer games, walked dogs - all sorts. None of us spent the entire time stuck inside staring at a screen. Of course we spent the odd rainy day holed up in our rooms but I was definitely more sociable then than I am now!

He's 12 OP. He should be sending most of it with his mates out playing or at home doing hobbies.

I repeat... He is 12. Not 7. A 12yr old should be indepedent and capable enough to be by himself for several hours a day with you on emergency stand-by.

They do not need babysitters

What does he usually do on a Saturday and Sunday?

Some of my staff work half days so they can get 2 weeks off with a weeks a/ l. My children are rarely out of bed before lunch time so if work are flexible it can be a good solution.

Because at 12 they should be more independent. Theres a thread where an 11yo cant clean up the toilet himself and The op babies him. Maybe this is the issue with people who have a problem with the rules.

Presumably you are no longer paying for after school care so should be able to use the money you save on that, or depending on your job perhaps you can ask to take some unpaid leave or work from home to some extent? Ten hours a day alone for four weeks is asking a lot of a 12 yo.

There are some refusals to RTFT here...

Agree that loneliness is the issue rather than childcare as such. If you live in a city there must be other 12 year olds around, even if he doesn't know them. How about getting him into some local activities now, so he can make some local friends before summer?
Reading between the lines of the op, it suggests that the Ds would just spend the whole summer on the computer, which is obviously easier /safer than encouraging independence. Maybe worth starting now with encouraging independent travel to visit the friends in the villages? Surely there must be some kind of bus even if only infrequent and with a walk at the end. He will have the time to walk for an hour if need be.
Also there are church/scout/activity camps that would be fun for a week or two. He may be more willing to do these if he knows you are going to be turning the Internet off!
If he literally won't do anything without his mum to take him and supervise, you will still have this problem till he is 18 as what is going to change? His friends will still be in the villages and you still won't want Gimingham solitary confinement on the Internet all summer

This is why I work “term time” and thankfully my work allows me to do this while averaging my salary. It means I take 7 weeks a year as unpaid leave and use my 6 weeks annual leave to cover all the school holidays, otherwise I would be £200 a week (and have been before) on childcare during the summer. Losing the wages and my salary being averaged means I dont have to pay a fortune to a childcare provider during the summer and don’t see the dent in my wagers as much during the summer holidays.

Yes, I’m just backing away slowly now.
I will look at volunteering as an option, it may not work this year, but perhaps next year.
This is not a judgement on the independence of my son, who does well for 12 (though he can’t cook a full dinner).
It is not because I feel he needs constant childcare, but he does need something to help pass the time and keep him out of mischief.
My irritation is that the old childcare voucher system is available for children older than 12.
The new tax free childcare system stops at 11.
I do not think society should pay for my childcare. I do think the tax free childcare system should continue until an older age. It’s obvious I’m not the only one with this problem (thank you!!!) and I appreciate the posters who provided useful suggestions!