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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

1003 replies

Leati · 18/07/2007 08:16

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

OP posts:
SueW · 20/07/2007 08:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

SleeplessInTheStaceym11House · 20/07/2007 08:11

the other thing i just wanted to add (oh i should really leave this alone) haychee you mentioned that her weaning her 5mo onto gluten has nothing to do with it. Well it does, she is complaining at us for not following quidelines exactly and yet there are other guidelines she doesnt follow exactly

pot calling kettle black

elesbells · 20/07/2007 08:18

oh look haychee is back. gutted she didnt disagree with leati though it could have been interesting to see if anyone else would have had the chance to get a word in between their posts. ah well never mind eh.

Katy44 · 20/07/2007 08:54

oh

hellobello · 20/07/2007 09:33

Nearly at 1000 posts so the thread will soon be closed!!!

LittleBellatrixLeBoot · 20/07/2007 09:34

957

haychee · 20/07/2007 09:38

ok, i agree that you should be expecting a challenge from mn users when you continue to bang the same drum, but my post was simply to highlight those that have been a "tad harsh" not those that made constructive critism. Balanced, calm and rational comments or arguements are good, but mocking and slaughtering of leatis character is actually childish.
Like i say, if this thread is publicised i would be embarressed of some of the comments made here, if it is to be used as representation of uk mothers.

harleyd · 20/07/2007 09:38

"I think that some of you are not here to discuss fairly and diplomatically"

lol @ haychee - do you do diplomatic? do you listen to others pov ever, i must have missed something somewhere

Rantmum · 20/07/2007 09:40

well lets move it along then

Meeely2 · 20/07/2007 09:41

is this honestly still going?????

Katy44 · 20/07/2007 09:43

haychee - I tried to be reasonable and have a debate, but I would post my comments and questions, she would come back on, ignore them all, post another few paragraphs copied from a website or two and then disappear.
(Eventually she did answer my questions, after a lot of asking, for which I thanked her)
I agree that some of my comments may have been flippant or childish, but reasonable, rational argument wasn't having any effect which is incredibly frustrating!

HairyPuter · 20/07/2007 09:44

Someone better start a new thread, no way can haychee get properly into her stride with only 40 posts to go

Katy44 · 20/07/2007 09:45

She has skewed the facts (saying women claim to drink every day, whereas they had said they were advised they could, or their mothers did) and has produced an ill thought out article in which she claims we attacked her children, which I have issues with.

elesbells · 20/07/2007 09:47

only 35 to go

LittleBellatrixLeBoot · 20/07/2007 09:49

haychee it's not our responsiblity if a random american comes along and decides to represent us as to her nation as normal british mothers.

What do you want us to do? be more normal? I've been trying all my life...

By the way, the only rational response to Leati's habit of cutting and pasting interminable extracts from not very reputable websites in order to sledgehammer her point home, is mockery. Or sleep, obviously.

harleyd · 20/07/2007 09:49

i better go get a cup of tea before haychee starts

haychee · 20/07/2007 09:53

fair enough some of you had legitimate reasons to persue leatis comments, but its the mocking and slaughtering of her character that i do not agree with.

Because she has personal circumstances to want to highlight her concerns on her thread she should not be made a laughing stock of.

Yes i have and do have strong views on certain topics and how much to drink or not to drink is not really a topic i have much interest in. If i and leati persist in our opinions on whatever the topic then we must accept a challenge as you rightly say, but sometimes comments are totally unacceptable, rude, belittling and childish.

kiskidee · 20/07/2007 09:53

oops read part of BellaTrix's last post as 'order a sledgehammer to her home' - started on the vino a bit too early today p'rhaps?

HairyPuter · 20/07/2007 09:53

Haychee and leati, read this:

According to constructivist learning theories, how we construct knowledge will depend on what is already known. What we know depends on the kinds of experiences that we have had and how we have come to organize these into existing knowledge structures. A variety of labels are used to describe similar concepts inherent in many constructivist learning theories (e.g., generative learning, embodied cognition, cognitive flexibility, situated learning, educational semiotic, and cognitive apprenticeship). Behind the labels are several epistemological positions underpinning constructivist learning theories. The essential difference between each position relates to what constitutes a perception of reality and how this perception is created and maintained. Common to each position is that (a) we construct knowledge based on what we already know, and (b) learning is an active rather than a passive process.

There are two widely accepted constructivist learning theories: critical constructivism and social constructivism.

Critical constructivism assumes that knowledge is constructed as an integration of internal contradictions resulting from environmental interactions. It is not unlike the theory of cognitive dissonance (Carson, Butcher, & Coleman, 1988) or Schmidt?s (Belkin, 1982) cognitive restructuring, or even Mezirow?s (1990) perspective transformation. These are existing theories of learning that are essentially concerned with changes that occur as a result of new knowledge that is internally contradictory. Contradictions drive us to construct knowledge by conceiving of phenomena that lead toward greater understanding of unspecifiable complexities of organization and abstraction (Young, 1997). In this view, there is an objective universe that we aspire to understand.

The other prevalent position is social constructivism. This position is currently the most accepted epistemological position associated with online learning. In this view, the assumption is that knowledge is grounded in the relationship between the knower and the known. Knowledge is generated through social intercourse, and through this interaction we gradually accumulate advances in our levels of knowing. Vygotsky, a Russian psychologist and philosopher in the 1930s, is most often associated with social constructivism. Vygotsky (1978) emphasized the influence of cultural and social contexts in learning. In this view, we construct meanings actively and continuously in a social context (Young, 1997). Meanings emerge from the patterns of our social experiences that occur over time in a contextual, situated, and continually changing synthesis. Social constructivism, sometimes referred to as symbolic social interaction, uses conversational language for negotiation of meaning and conceptual delimitations. How we construct knowledge, in this position, is based on our social experiences where ?the mind is instrumental and essential in interpreting events, objects, and perspectives on the real world, and that those interpretations comprise a knowledge base that is personal and individualistic? (Jonassen, 1991, p. 29). This position, according to Young (1997), views knowledge construction as a kind of narrative where ?human beings who live in language, live in a multiverse rather than a universe? (p. 250). In this view, we all have a different understanding of the external world based on our individual experiences and beliefs about those experiences (Jonassen, 1991).

Constructivist learning theories are becoming widely accepted in all fields of education, including the application of technology to teaching and learning. This interest is related to the capacity of the computer to provide an interactive environment that creates ?an effective means for implementing constructivist strategies that would be difficult to accomplish in other media? (Driscoll, 1994, p. 376). The use of computers and telecommunications technology supports this social construction of knowledge while simultaneously creating an archive of this interactive process (the online transcripts).

(right, that should keep them occupied for a while )

SleeplessInTheStaceym11House · 20/07/2007 09:54

can i just ask what was belittling and childish, other than the myspace and address thing which was plain wrong.

HairyPuter · 20/07/2007 09:56

by the way, leati only mentioned her personal circumstances about 700 posts in - way after she'd said she started this thread specificaly to get a reaction and then to write an article about us!

Rantmum · 20/07/2007 09:59

"if this thread is publicised i would be embarressed of some of the comments made here, if it is to be used as representation of uk mothers"

Haychee, you have no idea if these posts represent uk mothers, the opinions that question Leati's pov come from various posters, many of whom may not be British at all, but may take exception to her tone, where she questions British mother's ability to judge for themselves on the basis of all available evidence whether or not a glass of wine a week in pgy is dangerous.

Leati is, of course, entitled to her opinion, but when you hold a strong opinion and post it on a public forum you have expect that it will be challenged using rational thought and logic (and sometimes emotion, which the op is guilty of herself as well because she used an undoubtedly sad personal experience to illustrate her point.

And bear in mind that even the evidence she produced to support her own argument simply backed up the fact that EXCESSIVE alcohol consumption is dangerous but nevertheless goes on to suggest that total abstinance should therefore be practiced by all pg women.
Leati may feel insulted about some of these responses , but then I daresay that there are a few non-alcoholic women who had a very infrequent drink during pgy following only recently revised UK government guidelines that are insulted by the insinuation that they deliberately chose a course of action to inflict harm on their unborn baby.

Think about it.

LittleBellatrixLeBoot · 20/07/2007 10:00

Think she means me Sleepless.

But tbh it is impossible to have a serious debate with someone who is not approaching a topic with an open mind willing to acknowledge and address challenges. So yeah, I do give up with people like Leati. If I've been childish and belittling, it's because I know there's no point in being grown up and sensible. Sorry about that.

elesbells · 20/07/2007 10:03

25 to go

Rantmum · 20/07/2007 10:08

24

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