To be disappointed in hearing that many UK woman drink during pregnancy [shock]

[Leati]

Yesterday, I was on a thread when some of the women started questioning about US policy on drinking alcohol during pregnancies. One of the women had heard that if you have a glass of wine, you could be arrested. I assured her that wasn't true but there was chance that if you were visibly pregnant that the restaurant or bar might exercise their right to refuse service. And if a pediatrician became suspicious of drug or alcohol abuse, they could have the baby?s blood tested at birth. If the baby is found to have these in their blood, the child will be taken away. Another woman pitched that she found it disturbing that restaurants had signs warning pregnant women.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These women seemed to believe it was actually okay to drink during their pregnancies. Hadn't they heard of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. So today, I did a little research and was shocked to learn that it is a big problem in the UK and that there is little education about it there.

Women who are angry over mothers choosing the bottle over nursing are damaging their children by drinking alcohol. This is not minor damage, in some case it is equivalent to severe mental retardation and in others it less obvious cognitive problems. Overall nearly 10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from some sort of cognitive problems directly related to alcohol exposure in the womb.

What broke my heart the most is that I have been on this site and I know that the mothers on this site care so much for their children. That while I may not always agree with everything said and our perspectives are not always the same, that we share a common love for our children. So I felt compelled to start this thread and share the information. I hope that you will share it, with your loved ones and it may spread.

I have attached some sites so you can research this yourself. These sites are both from the UK and the US.

www.fasaware.co.uk/

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/fetal_alcohol_syndro mfaspregnancydrinkinglearning_difficulties.shtml

www.healthychildrenproject.org/glossa ry/

I hope leati prints out the whole thread rather than the edited highlights! sadly i doubt it

Fantastic post suey2

Trying not to get drawn back into this as got quite ranty yesterday so haven't read it all...

But suey2 Fantastic post!!!! I applaud you! And agree 100%

Hooray to designerbaby too!

Forgive me if am covering old ground...I don't have the energy to trawl through 900-odd threads.

The reason that the RCOG recommend abstinence is because wines have become much stronger and one glass no longer equals one unit - the view amongst midwives and other health professionals is that because it is very hard to work out what equals one unit, advising abstinence is the best policy.

Remember that women still have ownership over their own bodies and they, and their unborn child, are not state or public property...yet. Midwives and health visitors can enducate and facilitate women to give up smoking/drinking, but we cannot, and should not, judge.

If you feel so strongly about it, I suggest that you train to help and educate these women. When you enter some of the most deprived areas of the UK you'll soon agree that John Reid may have been right when he said that for some people, having a fag [one could also insert drink here] is the only joy in their lives.

Sorry, finding this thread a bit angry-making.

Take a look at this excellent article...

www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2089968,00.html

OK not going to read anymore of this as I got quite wound up yesterday and can feel it starting again. Sure thats worse for my unborn baby (28 weeks) than having the glass of wine I will need if I keep reading!

All the best to you ladies but I don't think you'll change Leati's mind or even manage to make her into a reasonable person capable of intelligent debate!

spillage21 as far as i know, one unit is 125ml of 9% wine. I base my consumption on one 125ml glass- which will never be more than 2 units- the most alcoholic wine i have drunk is 16.5% (chateau musar). The new advice is based on the assumption that i do not know what a unit is, which is not true

If anyone is interested, this unit calculator is quite good:

www.at-bristol.org.uk/Alcoholandyou/Facts/units.html

I was pretty surprised, TBH, to find that only 100ml of the 13 per cent nice Shiraz we had in was 1.3 units, for example.

'10% of babies born in the UK are suffering from sort of alcohol related cognitive problems. 23 of every 13000 babies born in the UK are mentally retarded because thier mother thought it was okay to drink. Another 123 babies out of those 13000 have cognitive problems directly linked to alcohol. '

I don't quite follow Leati's maths: surely this is 1%, not 10%. Or maybe my one or two units per week has shrivelled my brain ...

I wonder: do the scientists who write Leati's articles need FUNDING for their research? And is it easier to attract that funding if they splash a big scare story?

Spillage 21

Fantastic article, will be sending the link to all 3 of my pregnant friends.

Thanks

dueat, we did point out to Leati that she grossly miscalculated!!

It's odd that America is so much more anti-alcohol than we are.

In Shakespeare's time, every one drank alcohol as it was so much safer than water. Tea and coffee hadn't made it to UK by then.
Of course alcoholic drinks were much weaker than what we quaff today. It's amazing any baby survived at all really, isn't it?

I went right off alcohol and caffeine, including chocolate when pg. I have never smoked, but females in my family who did, were nauseated by smoke when pg - only to take up the deadly habit again afterwards.
In fact, the only time I ever vomited in my last pg was after I got a whiff of chocolate - despite the fact I was emptying 4 potty loads of poo a day.

I am surprised that any woman is still tempted to drink or smoke in pg, after my own experience.

Sorry this is really late but it has taken me all evening to catch up with this post - can I just say that I agree with everyone apart from Leati (and the ceserians being safer person) obviously but I would just like to say that I have taken great offense at your article Leati as I was one of the people who, early on, said that I chose not to drink at all in either of my pg's (both before that became the Official Government Advice as it is now), as I personally felt that was safest because of the fact that the safe level - and their undoubtedly is one, is not known.

And yet your article implied that all UK women drank during pg and were not given the correct advice. I am quite happy with the advice I was given and was quite capable of making my own mind up without you coming on here to educate me, thanks.

I actually do have concerns about the "drink nothing in pregnancy" advice.

Given that we don't know what the safe level is, it's very sensible not to drink at all.

BUT... when you make that official advice, you run a real risk that women who choose to drink a tiny amount of alcohol will be vilified, and even worse, will be blamed if anything at all goes wrong with their baby.

I really worry that if you dumb down the message, innocent people will be made to suffer by the Leatis of this world.

hello (smile)
I read the thread on drinking in pregnancy and I never touched a drop when I was pregnant, but I was so ill with sickness and depression (sad). I would have liked to have been more relaxed in my pregnancies and enjoyed the odd glass of wine!

I think pregnancy is hard itself without any other stresses to go with it. If women want to drink then thats their choice as long as they know all the risks.

There are other things that need to be taken into consideration here rather than just being so judgemental such as; relationship, financial, housing, education difficulties, the list could go on forever.
Maybe the women who do drink it is because maybe they are lacking in any kind support and turn to drink for comfort, we have all done it at some point pregnant or not! So maybe people should show a bit of empathy and understanding towards the mother rather than spouting about theories of the harm the alcohol may cause to the baby which will make her feel worse than she already does.

Please people,listen! Bigchick is saying it again!

Leati obviously has been touched by this topic personally. She talked of a younger brother born underweight and abandoned by his alcoholic mother. I think this should be considered before ripping her to shreds.
She started the thread with the best intention of raising awareness, but was slaughtered by you all for her genuine concern. Just try to imagine how she must now be feeling, not only have you picked apart her every word but youve also mocked her. Remember this is a topic she wanted to talk about and that she had very strong opinions of. To mock someone for this repeatedly is in no way constructive or civil. Whether her opinion is correct or disagreed with she did not deserve the backlash she has recieved. It has nothing to do with what she decided was the best thing to give a 6month old to eat, its about her desire to talk about a subject that worries her. Its something shes witnessed and therefore has concerns about.
I think that some of you are not here to discuss fairly and diplomatically, your here to find one single post or comment so you can belittle the writer.
She did not say all uk mothers are alcoholics and all uk children therfore have FAS. Its all been taken out of proportion and her character ruined.
I for one am very disappointed that, if infact Leati does persue that this thread is publicised somehow, the uk parent population will be represented by some of you evil people here.
Good points were raised on both sides of the arguement, why not leave it at that? why the continuous slaughter of leati? its not necessary or nice.
If you dont like whats being said or you take that much offence to her why dont you just say your piece and move on. Ok, you dont think the odd drink is a problem, leati worries it might. Thats it, thats all, end of. I noticed this thread carrying on but didnt go there and read or post because i have no real interest in the topic. If you are happy with what alcohol you have already consumed during your pregnancy/ies and your unconcerned about your childrens health, why do you feel the need to come to leatis thread and commence arguing with her? Its not a topic that concerns you directly but it does or has affected leati.
I will apologise in advance if this post upsets any of you. So retract your claws im not staying around for the response to this, its how i feel. Some of you are out of order. Thats it.

Hurray! Haychee's back! [grin[

Will now read her post.

Great post Suey2, I was wondering how to bring up the subject of critical thought (the arts equivalent to scientific method ) and you've done it perfectly and politely.

Haychee you're a scream.

Oh purlease spare me the belated type hindsight is like a pimple on your arse that you just don't see at the time type of philosophy haychee!!!!!

YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh fuck it for a game of soldiers, I'm not from the uk but seriously haychee do your own hoework before you yourself make general sweeping statements! leati herself God knows how many cut it and post it agos more or less said that she gained most of her insights of diffrerences betwwen USA and UK from Mumsnet, Jesus Fucking wept! If that and obsessive quotes from the web are your main sorce of reference then stay well the fuck away from a pooter. End of! Go on go on go feckin on!

Oops, homework even.

PPs
Haychee, yes maybe leati was "touched" by experience of a younger brother being born underweight etc etc. I'm lovin your turn of phrase btw! but all of us have been "affected by something" at some stage in our lives, doesen't necessarily mean we go projecting our shit to all and sundry!

it was a druggy mother not alcoholic

Haychee - respect that that is your view, but i have to disagree with you.

'but was slaughtered by you all for her genuine concern'(my emphasis)
There are some posters on here who have been a tad harsh (and a lot of MNetters called them up on it immediately) - but there are an equal amount who have been calm, balanced and rational in simply asking Leati for further evidence to support her claims. So please dont do a Leati and tar everyone with the same brush.
And as for coming on here to enter a discussion that on some level draws us in - forgive me, but is that not the point of a forum like mumsnet. FGS why should we have to walk away and not respond.

If you post on here - whatever your intention, you have to be prepared to be challenged. If you arent, then dont post in the first place! I for one have no sympathy for the OP as I know that this has upset a lot of MNetters - and this with all due respect was pointed out to the OP repeatedly in a calm and rational manner by various posters! She chose to post and chose to continue banging the same drum.