To feel like it’s too late to stop environmental disaster?

[greatandpowerfulozma]

Just that really. I feel like people won’t change in time to stop it. Meh.

bamboo more about ageing populations rather than ever increasing ones although that is still a problem obviously.

Unfortunately for humans the earth does its own thing and I can't see really how we can affect anything in a major way.
When the last ice age came and the UK was covered in ice 100s of metres thick I don't think that even with all the resources available to us now electric/ nuclear power stations we would be able to survive as a species.
New species will arrive then or maybe isolated humans in tropical regions could start the whole sequence again

imagine it was "give up your iphone for a day for the environment". There would be tumble weeds blowing in the streets!
I think plenty of well-educated kids would be willing to give up their iPhone for a day if it's necessary.

Greta Thunburg made people hear her voice so those who were trying to kid themselves that nothing was happening had to face to it, and made plenty of her generation be aware of the true situation. Only 7 months after the day she started sitting outside the parliament, 1.4 million school children around the world participated in her cause. She did what she could do, and did incredibly well.

Also, I don't believe going backwards is the way to do. We are moving forward. So no, we won't suddenly stop using technology (communication, transport, etc). It's obvious, a major system change is urgently needed. Meanwhile, we have to keep educating ourselves, educationg the younger generation, so we all can make wise choices as a responsible citizen. If it means switching off or less use of electricity, less driving, no beef, then why not doing so? From today.

Every little thing helps. It's all about awareness.

All this hand wringing about birth rate is a red herring. The birth rate has halved since the 1950s. The issue is that life expectancy has risen.
How is that not a birth rate issue? We're living longer so the only ways to reduce population are to kill off existing people or stop making new ones. Pretty obvious which one is preferable.

And yes, there will be a huge problem of not enough workers to support older people. But, nasty as it is, it has to happen if things are going to get better.

How is that not a birth rate issue? We're living longer so the only ways to reduce population are to kill off existing people or stop making new ones. Pretty obvious which one is preferable.

Personally, I'd rather be killed off in my eighties / nineties, than live on and on with nobody around to take care of me. Fate worse than death, by far.

But, what I actually think might happen is that we do a little of both. Not stop producing more people altogether, but reduce, ie making small families more normal and desirable. I also think euthanasia will and should become more freely available to people who truly want it. I know my grandparents would have taken up that option if they could have and so would I before I ended up in care.

Nobody is going to start forcing abortions or "killing people off", but I do think population will be gently managed at both ends. Rightly so.

And we're already doing ok at the birth end. There are plenty of people campaigning for euthanasia now too and I hope it happens.

DP and I think we have a fairly low carbon footprint but I worry that what we do is a waste of time when there are large nations like India, China, USA that consume lots. The population is too large and resources are diminishing and conflict in the world will just get worse. I find it very depressing and worrying. I often wonder what happens when civilisation stops and nuclear energy plants are abandoned!

NyNameIsArthur, someone who hasn't been born yet will appreciate your effort. I know it can be depressing when you see what's going on in China, USA, etc. But your every consideration and effort are NOT a waste. I think it's important to keep sending the message out there that everyone can do their bit and keep reminding yourself not to be one of 'those people'.

After watching the David Attenborough Climate Change programme I switched energy to renewable energy.

I have switched to refilling milk in glass bottles from my local farm shop.

I give out less carrier bags at work and always wait for the customer to ask for one (food service) instead of just handing them out.

I recycle much more than I used to.

We eat much less red meat as a family.

It all feels a bit futile especially because I have 4DC but we all have to do our bit AS WELL as lobbying big business / government. After all, it’s our buying power that brings change. Vegan meals are becoming big business. Even people that are not vegan are eating perhaps a vegan lunch or dinner reducing our consumption.

I think the post about normalising small families and promoting their benefits is great.

I think contraception for men needs a lot more investment. It’s pathetic how all the responsibility, side effects and judgement falls upon women, when women can only get pregnant about 4/5 days out of every month. Yet men can recklessly ejaculate every day of the year and impregnate.

Perhaps the responsibility for reducing population could be more evenly distributed.

Good tweet in sky news just now

(Paraphrasing)

We now have two English football teams plus all their supporters flying to Madrid to play a match. We have plenty of excellent stadiums here...

I know why they’re doing it, but it’s that sort of mindset that will need to change.

Hi Neleus we will continue to do what we can. It's a bit like litter where one person throws something on the pavement thinking one piece of litter won't hurt but then if thousands or millions think that, it does hurt. So the other way round, we will do our little bit and hope than thousands or millions will do the same. It needs consensus around the world with leaders doing something about it at global treaty level but population control is maybe the biggest problem and distribution of wealth and our global capitalist system.

We now have two English football teams plus all their supporters flying to Madrid to play a match. We have plenty of excellent stadiums here...

And now we have Chelsea and Arsenal doing the same thing in Baku.

Later, the winners of the Madrid match will play the winners of the Baku match in Istanbul, for the Super Cup.

Read this this morning. I feel like these solutions may do the thing we want (e.g. reduce carbon) but will then have an unforeseen side effect. Like when non native species are introduced somewhere and take over. .

At least people are trying though.
Climate change: Scientists test radical ways to fix Earth's climate www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48069663

Agree OP, plus fear that people will just go oh ok we can just carry on as before then as it's all been sorted out.

I watched Earth from Space and I can't say I am surprised at the amount of damage we have caused to our planet. The amount of trees cut down not just in rainforests but in our towns and cities, no wonder the air quality is soooo so bad. The line that hit me was Madagascar is bleeding.

Madagascar was devastating - 85% of the forests gone. What the hell are we doing?

Please don’t avoid palm oil for environment reasons!
Sustainable palm oil is better for the environment than other kinds of oil due to it needing less land to produce the same amounts. If people don’t buy products with sustainable palm oil then there is no incentive to produce it which will lead to more money going into oils that take more land (rainforest) to grow.

This is an interesting link - www.wholeearthfoods.com/palm-oil/

The biggest most imminent threat is 5G, not just to the environment, but to humanity. Please do your own research as this untested technology is already being banned in some cities.
But take a look at this clip regarding Extinction rebellion, as all is not as it seems.
Please do your own research on what the MSM are not telling us.

rrg1

I knew nothing about any issues with 5G. Thanks for the info.

Many people don't or just think the technology is an upgrade of 4G. Where in fact rather than microwave technology, it is millimetre wave technology, the same as is used by the military and by the police for crowd control.
Trees are being felled to facilitate it. Just check out what has been happening in Sheffield. Also Gateshead, where a guy called Mark Steele has been fighting the local authority who have already installed LED street lighting with 5G units.
You won't see any of this reported by the BBC or the like! Why?

These may be of interest to you:

Do your own research x

Me and DH chose not to have children because of overpopulation. I do worry about my nieces and nephews though and what their futures will be like.

I also worry a great deal about all the animals, trees, plants etc. Humans seem to be wiping everything out. I can't help feeling without humans the planet would be so much better off.

We try to do our bit. We have both been vegetarian for over 30 years and are now almost vegan (we use oat milk, vegan cheese but still eat eggs). We do have a car but live somewhere where the bus service is pretty awful. We rarely fly. In fact I have only ever flown 10 times (5 return trips) in my 60 plus years.

I buy most of my clothes in charity shops and wear them until they literally fall apart. I then use them for dusters. I hardly ever buy clothes anyway.

I've stopped using shower gel and now use bar soap and use a shampoo bar.

Food wise we try not to buy things like fruit and veg packed in plastic. We buy loose whenever we can and if it has to go in a bag we use a paper one. A store has just opened near us when you take your own containers/bags and buy things like pulses, nuts, raisins, pasta, cereals etc

I do think that people should be having less children but honestly cannot see that happening. I am saddened and rather shocked by how many mn posters have large families. I thought family sizes were getting smaller but it seems not. In my road there are 10 families with children, 5 of them have 3 children, 1 has 4 children and the other 4 have 2 children. Some of them possibly could have more - one with 3 children whose youngest is 6 months have said they want at least 1 more!

People are living longer and I don’t think it is necessarily right. I work in nursing and see day in and day out what the effect of modern medicine is doing to keep older people alive past natural expiry and it isn’t pretty.

i think that as a population death is not spoken about and isn’t looked at realistically, everyone wants to live longer and past what they should. And when I say older people I mean people past the age of say 80 being treated for every little thing that would have killed them years ago and yes I know there are still fit healthy people at that age but I’m talking about people on 17 pills of a morning etc. It’s not natural.

Same goes for older people being treated for cancer etc, It entirely the patients choice but in reality it’s not doing them or their quality of life any favours, in my job it is a lot of elderly, cancer patients receiving treatment we are getting more of. My view is if I’m healthy up to that kind of age and get cancer I would be quite happy to take that as my time to go but I do have a family member who is getting chemo at the minute but they are 74 still work 4 days a week etc and has always been active, so it is a difficult one.

People have lived on earth for tens of thousands of years. It’s only in the last 70 years humans have severely effected the planet in a negative way.

The answer is not for people to be extinct but to live how we did 100 years ago. The government needs to take action and ban the worst culprits. Before all this new technology. I don’t even want kids but I’m not going to berate people who do want them.

Also people in the West aren’t even having kids at replacement level. So because people in Africa and the Middle East are having 4/5 kids per household everyone else has to stop?

I agree that people living longer and longer is somewhat of a problem. Of course if they are reasonably healthy that is different.

My dad is 94. He was always very fit and active, walked miles. Now he struggles to walk the length of his living room and can only do it at a snail's pace. He doesn't want to be alive any more.

It makes me so sad to see how he is now to how he used to be. I know I don't want to live to an old age if I am not fit enough to enjoy it. He also seems to have the early stages of dementia which also terrifies me.

I do agree that we need to be talking about things like euthanasia. What is the point of keeping people alive just because we can? I really hope that euthanasia has become legal in this country by the time I get older

I see people lying in beds in nursing homes staring at a ceiling all day, being kept alive by various medications, not knowing their family etc what is the actual point? I find that the families are also instrumental in this though, don’t want to let them go etc but it’s not fair and certainly not how I want to live.

I agree about euthanasia something will need to be looked in to in the future but no one wants to talk about their future as an elderly person or their death. I’ve been putting some serious thought in to a living will