To feel like it’s too late to stop environmental disaster?

[greatandpowerfulozma]

Just that really. I feel like people won’t change in time to stop it. Meh.

Ultimately people aren’t prepared to go to the lengths it would take, or not yet anyway.

All the keep cup stuff is fine, but it’s the teeniest, tiniest drop in the biggest of oceans.

Bigger changes are required. Going fully vegan. Committing to local food only. Renouncing all plane/car travel. Weaning ourselves off pets.

Restricting children is a case in point. No one is ready to support this at a policy level (and there are huge issues with it, to be fair) yet that’s probably the kind of thing it would take.

How do I cut out palm oil? It seems to be in everything.

Veggie 5 days a week, started with meat free Monday and then as we got better at cooking veggie food we extended it. Reduced dairy consumption but not dairy free.

Still have 2 cars but, small economical ones.

Used to go on holiday 4 or 5 times a year (flying) including city breaks. Now go abroad (fly short haul) once a year and other holidays in the U.K. Still have to drive on the UK holidays though - train travel is extortionate.

Have one DC plus one DSD.

We recycle. There is more we can all do though.

I really dislike the point that there's no point doing things on an individual level because 1) the problem is with the government or 2) other countries are worse than we are. Social influence is real and a significant factor in the changing of behaviours. Model the behaviour that you think the entire global population should be doing, and eventually (albeit slowly) change will occur.
It would never have even occurred to me a few years ago to reduce meat consumption for environmental reasons. Ethical and health reasons, yes. But I have been directly influenced by other people. Not policy, or articles. Other people.

Not making changes because it won't make a difference globally is a poor excuse. It's like not voting because your one vote won't make a difference.
We need to stop passing the buck to developing countries, because they are just trying to emulate what we have had for years. Of course they are striving to have All The Things, regardless of impact. We led the way there.

I tried too cut out palm oil, but when you start looking you find it in practically anything. My compromise is choosing products that say it comes from sustainable sources.

I’m cutting down on meat (not cut out yet).

I recycle everything I can.

I avoid unnecessary journeys.

I can’t not drive, because the infrastructure is not there. I don’t holiday abroad as such, but I do visit family abroad.

I'm not a big consumer - I don’t buy 'things', just what I need. I turn lights off, I buy 'green energy'. I have two children and will not have more.

I turn my tv on and see waste from those at the top all over. Royal family, government, big business.

I cannot do without my car, because of work. But until I see motor sports banned, I remain cynical about giving it up. If I could afford electric, I would, but I can’t, so don’t.

No solution is perfect. But it has to be top down.

To, not too

Electric car, that should say, not just electric!

Can anyone recommend a hybrid car? We are changing our diesel later this year and want a hybrid so we can use electric locally where we can but to visit family we'd still need a regular engine. We only have one car and do try to use the bus when we go into the local town or city but by god it's expensive.

Didn't they say the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica is actually shrinking and could be completely healed by 2060?

And that beach clean up in Mumbai that took 2 years to clear up and now rare turtles are breeding and hatching there for the first time in decades.

The worlds second largest coral reef (off of Belize) is no longer on the endangered list.

China has cut down concentrations of fine particulates in the air by an average of 32%

Stuff is happening! And although most of it is from big corporations and international agreements, little things like plastic straws being removed from Starbuck/McDonalds is going to make a huge plastic reduction worldwide.

Surely if you cook most stuff from scratch (including sweet stuff) you can avoid palm oil? For things like chocolate you can avoid it by buying premium brands.

@lauriemarlow
It’s in condiments.
It’s in plastic containers - I’ve switched to soap and shampoo bars and carry both a reusable coffee cup and water bottle - but cleaning stuff and other cosmetic containers have it in. It needs to be banned to make manufacturers use something else.

Public transport needs to be more heavily subsidised for the masses too. Day out on Sunday cost us £11 in petrol and parking. It would have been £37.50 on the tram and train.

The problem is that people say 'but the world was in an ice age x number of years ago, and x number of years before that the ice melted. We, the UK, were under thick ice not that many years ago in the short time man has been on earth. The English Channel was created by the ice melting. The earth is always in a cycle'

That's all true. We will enter an ice age, ice will melt and, because it's natural, we won't be able to do anything about it. BUT it's the fact that cycle seems to be increasing. That's the problem. It the speed. The earth can cope with ice ages/melts but not if that cycle is sped up.

We can cut air transport, cars, use public transport, eat more plants, less meat etc., but we are holding off the inevitable if we keep on multiplying! I put this in another post recently. If you look at the year I was born (1963) there were about 3.5 billion people on this planet. I've not even retired yet and there are over 7.5 billion people. All needing water, all needing food (plant or otherwise), all needing homes, transport, education, clothing, entertainment - some are luckier than others in getting these things but the first three are needed by everyone.

It's not completely a case of cutting the use of fossil fuels, or not eating meat. It's getting to the stage where having a family of more than two children is looked upon like saying you smoke or you drink a bottle of wine a day - slightly frowned upon. Attenborough has said this - governments ignore it and people ignore it because people dream of their three children, four children family and because they can afford them, they have them.

But as my son likes to quote, the character Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park said 'Just because you can, doesn't mean you should'. We all need to teach our children that, whilst it was fine to have 3 or 4 kids in our life time, it won't be in theirs. Or their children will be worrying about the same thing in 100 years time but there won't be anything to cut or increase to make the earth well again - because they (the children, the population of the day) will have put too much demand on this planet.

Every little does help. I have cut my single use plastic consumption down considerably due to the Attenburgh effect.

malificent7 me too, I use reusable face wipes instead of face wipes or cotton pads and beeswax sandwich wraps instead of cling film or plastic bags.

How does anyone quantify what are the benefits to the environment
Example
I'm vegetarian
I don't own pets
I have a water butt, shower not bath
3 positives ?

I drive a petrol car
I enjoy foreign travel
I have an automatic drier (currently raining)
3 negatives ?

Who is going to quantify whether I am more or less environmentally positive or negative than my family, friends, neighbours ?

It’s in condiments.

You can make your own mayo and tomato salsa type stuff. What else would you miss?

We drive a diesel car. Can't afford to get rid of it and live in the sticks. Can't afford to move or change jobs.

@lauriemarlow

Do you actually know how prevalent palm oil is?

What food stuff are you talking about that can’t be made from scratch and can’t be done without?

I disagree about air travel. Since it's invention it has only been increasing. We can't put the world back into pre aeroplane days. Until someone invents teleportation or something similar.

The problem is that any changes YOU (as an individual make) are totally insignificant. So you (generic) is put off / doesn't do what you can.

If we ALL made little changes, it would add up, but because each individual can't see the point, the collective whole doesn't either.

Of course governments and big businesses can make much bigger changes, but these cost money - and stakeholders don't want to see profits dented, and consumers don't want to see price rises.

I think the most important thing to do is to ask 'is there an alternative I can use/do?' for every situation. Of course people shouldn't give up their cars if they're necessary for their jobs, or public transport isn't good enough where they live. But, if there is an alternative that is possible (i.e., available and within budget) then it should be done. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.

The greenest thing you can do is support female education and empowerment. Put bluntly, the richer and more educated the woman is, the less children, on average, she is likely to have. So freely accessible contraception and all girls finishing secondary education will have a massive impact on the global birth rate.

It's worth noting that the aforementioned birth has fallen in the past 50 years from 4.2 to 2.4. Over half of the countries surveyed are now looking at a "baby bust" scenario with fewer babies to replace the aging population. That comes with its own difficulties, of course, but most of today's global population increase is due to longevity.

www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-46118103

Beyond that, adapting to a greener lifestyle and diet is useful as the western lifestyle is seen as aspirational, so we have the chance to influence other up and coming countries now by changing our idea of desirable consumption. Africa and Asia in particular are changing at a staggering pace and leapfrogging over a lot of industrial steps we went through. For example, farmers in Ethiopia are taking part in water rationing technology trials with their crops, using solar powered mobile phones! Across most of the developing world, cities are expanding at massive rate and more of the human race now live in an urban setting than a rural one. Managed correctly, this is a good development as it's a damn sight easier to distribute ideas, behaviours and technology across a smaller area. Plus, the less land we use for housing, the more can be reworded and reused for nature.

I don't think we should despair yet, but we do need to get on with it. The question is if we can reach the mass tipping point of green behaviour before hitting the tipping point for climate change and habitat loss?

There are lots of people on here advocating for a ‘fewer children’ policy.

May I ask are you all for abortion past the 24 week limit? If not, how would you like to see it enforced?

Every little does help Absolutely.

For instance, we've removed beef from our diet and replaced cows' milk with soya milk and tampons with a menstrual cup, etc. But we haven't become a 100% saint. DS struggled with soya milk for his cereal so we still buy them but a lot less now. We travel, mainly because I'm not from this country so have families far far away. It's essential for us to fly a few times a year.

BUT just because we cannot give up some essentials doesn't mean we have a ticket to ignore everything altogether. Everyone can make a change by doing something achievable. Too many good but ignorant people, who like to make a change, choose to carry on their old lifestyle. Why?

I was shocked when I heard Trump saying global warming isn't happening because we still have winter. I'm sure everyone can see how ridiculous his comment is. But If you are not making any effort by telling yourself 'it's too late anyway', you are as bad as he is and as bad as the companies and governments who refused to admit it's happening for their benefits decades ago.

We need a real commitment from both the top and the bottom. While the top need to work on realising the bigger system change, the bottom (us!) need to start making a little change to how they live.

Every little does help.

Cripes, people’s reactions are so weird. Everyone is in control of some aspects of how they impact the environment e.g you are in control of what you eat and what you buy. It’s more difficult/impossible to stop driving a car (depending where you live). So just walk/cycle use public transport when you can.
Count in plastic bottles if it helps or in meals e.g. buy a bar of palm oil free soap and think ‘tick, that’s one less plastic bottle’. One veggie meal ‘tick’.
Keep it simple but every bit you do counts.

@ParrotWithACarrot, I would prefer more widely available contraception and giving girls the support to access it. TBH, whilst underage marriage is still acceptable in many countries (including the USA!), arguing over the abortion limit is a red herring to me.