To feel like it’s too late to stop environmental disaster?

[greatandpowerfulozma]

Just that really. I feel like people won’t change in time to stop it. Meh.

Gth1234 not sure what you consider to be poverty, but 120,000 children are homeless. 1 in 4 parents are going hungry to be able to give their children some food. 1 in 3 babies under one live below the breadline. But it's all the parents' fault huh? Did you know a huge proportion of food bank or baby bank recipients have at least one adult working full time in the household?

And our country is something like the 5th richest.

Isn't the real reason just sheer greed...to constantly want more and more. To constantly buy newer TV's, newer cars, newer clothes etc etc. even when what we have works fine, we just discard and buy more!! Crazy.

Also, I do sometimes wonder if the seemingly never ending migration isn't somehow contributing to the problem.

It will never happen but the best thing would be a one or two child policy - world over. Don’t know how you’d enforce it mind you 😂

contented migration to where?

The problem is there is virtually nothing we can do. The UK is a tiny island on the planet and even if overnight we were to do everything right it would make no difference.

It’s other countries like China, Brazil, USA and Russia that will need to change to make a difference. You have Bolsanaro in Brazil about to decimate the rainforest. More than 20 percent of the world oxygen is produced in the Amazon Rainforest.

Russia is another big one as climate change is a good thing for Russia. It’s one of the very few countries where they want the climate to increase and so they are actively trying to make the problem worse as they don’t really care about the rest of the world only Russia.

It will never happen but the best thing would be a one or two child policy - world over. Don’t know how you’d enforce it mind you 😂

Most people in the West aren’t even having children at a replacement level so one child per TWO people is pretty unfair.

We’re set to reach 10billion by 2060 and this is almost entirely because of Africa and people there ON AVERAGE having 5+ kids. I don’t really know how you’d solve that

www.ft.com/content/a2ccd284-5668-11e7-80b6-9bfa4c1f83d2

Surely the biggest culprits should be dealt with first? The big oil companies and fossil fuels should be dealt with. Deforestation to produce palm oil?

And then we filter down to us smaller guys to convince us to use shampoo bar etc. And reducing our plastic usage.

I don't quite grasp why the culprits are listed, worst offenders at the top?

I agree. It's too late.

Like Rabbitmug I'm irritated with people hand-wringing over what kind of world our children will live in. Your children are the cause of the problem, not the victims.

The difficulty is that the entire global economy is built around consuming more. Consumption translates into growth for capitalist societies.

If everyone made the changes they’d need to make to tackle this (no flying, no cars, no meat, no new stuff, no imported food, coming off grid, restricting numbers of children and pets) our economy would go into free fall.

There’s no way even the most well meaning government could bring themselves to actively encourage this. Much less tackle the big oil firms and so on.

There’s also the issue of the emerging middle classes in developing countries like China. It’s going to be difficult for the west to persuade them to given up the ‘rewards’ of capitalism for the greater good, given that westerns have enjoyed them so long.

So I think we’re fucked yes. Not because it’s too late, but because there are structural and ideological barriers to making the changes we need.

Southwestten

My own daughter (hangs head in shame) used regularly to bin bag things for rubbish that she hadn’t even worn and still had the labels attached. I thought the younger generation were supposed to be aware?!
This was when she lived at home several years ago so tbf I don’t know if she’s reformed now. (and has to solely finance her own life!). And needless to say, rummaging through and resorting her bin bags was a regular occupation. Years on, I am the wearer of several (probably deeply inappropriate ) inherited items.

People in the West seem to think they're entitled to have at least two children and still consider themselves environmentally proactive because other people in the West don't have as many kids instead of ignoring the global issue and the fact that any lack of kids we might have later can be solved with immigration, but that's not going to fly, either.

bamboofibre Indeed. I guarantee most people on this thread, and most people who would say they care about the environment, think their right to have children and eat meat is more important than the planet.

There is no hope.

Action at the individual level does matter and action taken by countries that aren't the lead culprit in climate change does make a difference.

If 10 countries that are responsible for 5% each if emissions changed their practices that would be huge, but if all of them sit there saying they only contribute 5% and changing will make no difference then nothing will happen.

I started using a reusable cup everywhere I went last year and I know of four or five people who now use one because they have seen me using mine. Yes, that's small, but it's not nothing. I use reusable towels at night during my period because a friend told me about them. I use reusable cotton wipes because my cousin told me about them. I have several friends who are veggie or vegan and that has made eating less meat and dairy feel achievable.

Even if climate change can't be prevented (which I don't believe is true at this point), it can be mitigated if people take action instead of sitting around feeling sorry for themselves.

On the subject of action on an individual level and small steps, I was amazed to hear Greg Wallace on Inside the Factory say that around 25% of every teabag (of the bag, that is) is made of plastic (he wasn’t even saying it as an environmental point - just a ‘wow - would you believe it’ point. Bloody hell - I've been composting these in my garden - about 8+ a day for the last 20 years. I’ve decided to switch the family to loose leaf tea, which is what I grew up with in the 60s and 70s, but with a one cup infuser.

We are still in an ice age. The planet cycles through periods of extreme cold and extreme heat. Climate change is normal. What’s not normal is the speed.

Humans are speeding up the rate of warming. If it could be slowed back to the normal cycle, there is more chance of adapting. By destroying nature, we limit our chances to adapt.

As individuals, we can all do our bit, but until big businesses and corporations do their bit as well, then what chance do we have? Until MPs (etc etc) stop their excess travel and give up their second homes (an example of a waste of resources - heated and unused), what difference does me turning off a light bulb make? Until councils have to recycle everything, what does it matter that I recycle? It ends up in landfill anyway.

They bring in the bag tax. Yet, while they are making money, the plastic bags are getting stronger, thicker and less recyclable. If they cared, plastic bags would be banned outright. There’s no need to wrap fruit and veg in plastic (well there is, but it’s not environmentally friendly j.

As always the 'little person' is left wringing their hands trying to blow into the wind, while the Money doesn’t care and carries on as normal.

I despair.

Oh and I do think we should be thinking about limiting the population.

People yell and shout and get up in arms and it’s obvious that it can’t be forced (for obvious reasons), but anyone who cares should. One child per person - two adults produce two children. One in, one out. Obviously we can’t accont for accidents/ multiple births or everything else out of control (for those about to start frothing). Nor should we follow China.

But if you care, you shouldn’t be having large families - the population shouldn’t be growing exponentially.

Not a popular opinion, but we have to be able to discuss unpopular opinions if we are to save the planet.

Poor you. This sounds so very miserable. Have you considered leaving, on a practical level?
Do you even like him? It's only worth having the 'I'm unhappy conversation' if you think he can change, if he even cares!

Much as I totally despair and to a degree just want us over and done with and off the planet for good (its good) I do still do lots of little things to try and mitigate my own presence here. Planting trees is something we can all do, even if you don't have space in your own garden supporting a charity like the Woodland Trust would be a start. We need a trillion trees apparently to help offset the carbon so get planting!

Sorry. Wrong thread.

It is probably not too late
However, look at one thing, some people are saying as a solution to the problem example- reduce the number of children.
Not everyone in the world thinks the same. In lots of countries contraception is not available or religion does not allow, or large families are honoured. Secondly, with better medicine, better living conditions, vaccinations, people are living longer.
Therefore I believe doing one thing is not going to solve the issue, it needs to be a combination of changes.

Similarly, western civilizations cut down their forests to grow huge fields of crops.
Who are we to say to other countries that they cannot cut down their forests to grow their own crops. People are promoting the stopping of growing palm oil. But nobody is saying stop growing rubber trees, which are grown in the same countries, and if not palm or rubber, another cash crop will be grown !
Easy solution in the future - live on other planets ?

We finally got round to watching the Attenborough climate change documentary last night. It was a clear and sensible account of where things have gone wrong and what can be done. Fascinating!
It was interesting to see how much technology advancing was helping to plot exactly where things are going wrong and why. It should be compulsory viewing in schools IMO - we need to be getting all dc on board to stand a chance of changing things. We need them to be demanding we change our demands on the planet for their futures.
I know I feel what can i do that will actually make a difference but our all doing something is better than not doing anything!
My dd's school has enormous school fields - I'm off to encourage them to plant some trees

A question, if I proactively do things which are supposed to help reduce climate change eg use reusable bags. How do I personally quantify the positive affect that it has had on the environment
Example
Recently had a non gas heating system installed & use a green electricity supplier.
Recently, in the news, it states that future new houses will not have gas installed due to use of fossil fuel
Versus
However, my favourite hobby is travel
So does the new heating system cancel out my love of travel ?
There is perhaps no right or wrong answer ?

The population issue baffles me. The global birthrate has halved since 1950 and in most developed countries the birthrate is below replacement level. So how will we get to 10 billion by 2040? Not being goady. I genuinely don't get it...😵

Identify - I assume with better modern medicine people are living longer & better living conditions
Probably accounts for more people ?

And I think the birth rate refers to the % rise in population e.g. maybe in the 1950s the birth rate was 2% and now it is 1%. However that means that the population is still rising, just at a slower rate. Ideally it should be 0 or less.

As a pp stated I think a certain amount of the population growth is due to more births in Africa HOWEVER I don't think in general it's Africans causing the majority of the environmental problems currently. I think the planet is screwed mostly because of the rising population and because people won't sacrifice their lifestyle (be it by having fewer children or flying less). I am always amazed by the number of people I read about on MN who have 4+ children.

So many people seem to say the government should bring in laws to help the environment but who's going to vote for a party who limited how many children you can have or how many flights you can take a year or how many miles you can drive a year or how much time a year you can spend on MN wasting electricity .