Moaning about being ‘poor’ when rich

[freetone]

AIBU to think if you are childless, go on 3 holidays abroad per year and live in a 4 bed detached house on a private road then you don’t have the right to moan about being ‘poor’? My DF and his wife have been like this recently. He earns over £150k a year. It shows how far away from reality they are imo. Really gets on my nerves when there are millions of people genuinely struggling. Anyone else experienced people like my Father?

I've had a really rough few months financially, my hours have been cut at work and OH has been off on sick leave awaiting an operation. I was discussing this with a friend earlier this week and said how I had £25 to feed us all (family of 5) for the week. A few days later after tea time she called and said she was going through the drive thru to get her and her family mcds for tea 'not that she can really afford it'. I laughed and said well you obviously have the money there, I've got 60p in my purse and we'd all just had beans in toast for tea (which I have to say is a really underestimated meal, I actually think I could eat it everyday push come to shove) to which she said yeah fair enough she's not that skint. I think sometimes people just don't always think before they speak and can just be a tad insensitive, but the way I look at it is there's always someone worse off. I imagine when people are used to having a decent income, when they are hit in whatever way financially they really notice the difference. Some of us get used to living on stricter budgets and not always having money for essentials let alone luxury's, it's just a way of life.

Not the same but I feel everyone should be allowed to moan - but maybe to be considerate about it.

I feel like I'm not allowed to join in and moan with others about my health as from their perspective they feel like I have it so much better.

I think that competitive ill health fights are wrong. I am struggling and being told someone else has it worse does not in any way alter the fact that I'm struggling.

Friends are supposed to support each other. I support others when they are struggle. I don't feel I get the same back.

"It doesn't mean you're starving....but when you have children... I have one in University .... that money doesn't go far. £7 - 8k a year for Uni accommodation. .. and with another going off soon it will be a big hit on our pockets... so £100k income won't go far at all."

So weary of this kind of oblivious commentary. Guess what? @sandy Some people on household incomes of £28k also have children who would like to go to university. Even poor people! Amazing huh?

I do so love the 100k doesn’t go far argument. We’re not thick. We do realise that rents are high, childcare costs are high etc. We also know how hard that 100k is to earn. But the chances are, you have a mortgage on a property worth £££, you CHOOSE to send kids private, as well as choosing to eat well, do amazing things, go on amazing holidays, have a pension etc.

Just once it would be nice to hear someone on 100k not moaning

I’m not convinced people who have money tell the truth. Our neighbours spent 30k on a wedding and always moan about no money. They’ve been on holiday approx 4 times in the last year, moan moan moan about money. My SIL is fine for money, but she moans she doesn’t have any. They are on 100k, and he travels into london so mortgage here is very very cheap in comparison. They’ve cleared mortgage already...but moan about not having enough.

There’s no pleasing some people

Gluteus- I'm on a high income & we're happy :) I haven't always had so much (Altho never been "poor") and I think we are bloody lucky to have what we have. And I know lots of colleagues earning same who don't feel well off but I am constantly stunned by how much they SPEND, that they class as "necessary". I had to Google microblading last week..... I think I'm the only person left who just plucks their own eyebrows at home (when they can be bothered). For me, having a nice safety net of savings while also being in a secure home and having good food & quality time as a family, that feels great.

OP, I doubt you will change your father's perspective, but you might amuse yourself by pretending to take him seriously.

Send him helpful links to benefits websites and recipes to help him make one chicken last for four meals. Tell him about Freegle. Be very sympathetic because "I know the public transport in your town isn't very good and that you have to walk more than a mile to the nearest bus stop. But at least you'll be getting your free bus pass in a couple of years, and that may help a bit." Encourage him to take up sewing so he can repair his worn-out clothes. Email him a link to a Gumtree ad for a £15 bicycle which needs a few repairs, and suggest he can go on the internet to find out how to fix it up - that will reduce his petrol costs. Give him a warm hat and fingerless gloves from the charity shop and suggest he could turn the thermostat down to 15 degrees to save on fuel bills.

If you are earnest and persistent enough, he might even decide to stop moaning to you about poverty and only subject other people to it.

I didn’t expect so many responses! Will read through them all soon. I came across as bitter in my OP but that’s towards my own father and not generally well off people. I get that it might be hard for those that are climatized to a luxurious lifestyle to understand different levels of poor. Just the same as I don’t understand their problems when it comes to money and lifestyle. I like your suggestion Saracen!

@zsazsajuju
Same here. I use a combination of a nanny and a nursery due to long working hours, and have ~£500 left monthly for food and transportation after housing, bills and childcare from the salary of almost £100K.
Flying lessons? Private schools? Overseas holidays? People must be kidding.

I just mean childless high earners, bachelors etc that moan about finances to those with less. It also depends where they live too. My Father lives in the north so his money goes a lot further than if he were to live in London. I have a single male friend who recently lost his job and was telling me that he needs a £500 a week wage. He lives in his DMs old house for free, doesn’t pay council tax or any bills and has no car but lives centrally. I spend that in a month with a small toddler! He refused to believe that he didn’t need that much when I told him my outgoings. Others just view finances differently I guess? It’s hard for me to get my head round as I’ve never really had financial freedom

This thread interests me.

I have been so poor that I have spent days without food, lived in a homeless hostel and now I’m lucky enough to be very comfortable (multi millions).

I have never had help or money given to me.

I have sat on both sides of the fence but I can honestly say that most snobbery I have experienced is inverted snobbery.

So many people are telling those that have money that they don’t know what being poor is like. Firstly, they are assuming and secondly they (perhaps) don’t know what having money is like.

I’m not saying the worries are the same, they’re not but it comes with different worries and responsibilities.

An example of my life now is that i have housed family and friends. I wouldn’t want to let those people down so of course there is a worry in the back of my mind.

This gets to me too. Parents in a mortgage free mansion moaning about lack of money despite drinking fine wines daily and eating very well, running two luxury fully paid for cars.

I live in south east, have one child, both DH and I work and earn not close to £100k but despite high cost of living in general we feel far richer than we have ever been.
We can’t afford luxury holidays and regular meals out but we have everything else we want or need. That’s enough for me

@freetone
But that's exactly it. My ex-SIL is for some reason very bitter about my payslip income (she is working part time, and they have a weird arrangement where she is living with the children's dad but as he is registered for council tax at a different address, she is classed as a single mother - not sure how it works in the UK, I am not native). Her childcare and housing costs are heavily subsidised, she has no idea what the market rate is, and they airbnb her partner's central London flat out. They can afford to spend a month in France, or pack their jobs in and do a creative writing course instead, but it's me who is a fat rich cat in their eyes, based on my gross income.

I love the thought provoking posts about being grateful! I had an alright upbringing, there were times when we needed things but I always felt secure. I was sprung into poverty after unfair dismissal from work when I was pregnant and I’ve only just got used to it after 6 years. I’m muddling along with freelancing and internships hoping for the ‘big break’. I’ve learnt to be grateful of what I have. A roof over my head even if it is outdated and a health hazard. Fridge full of food every week even though it might not necessarily be what I want to eat. A heating system that works even if it is shit at keeping us warm. I’m so grateful that I have these experiences because if I do have a good income one day then I’ll be able to genuinely appreciate it. I don’t complain about having no money or not being where I want to be in life as you attract what you do. If you are negative then your life will become negative. The same applies to positive as well. The law of attraction is very interesting. Sorry if I offended any parents with my OP! I just mean those with complete financial freedom

Having never been unable to afford to eat, I feel extremely lucky with the life I was born into and have worked to maintain.

My OH however, does fall into the complaining about money despite earning more than the UK average himself. His terrible money management and belief that essentials include cinema, meals out etc etc really irritate me but his parents have always indulged him and shielded him from reality. Despite them earning below uk average together and struggling, his mum even counts every penny. Annoys me no end he’s still happy to allow them to buy him things when he should be helping them especially at his age! Luckily his parents own thier home now so it’s less monthly outgoings now. Just wish he would appreciate how fortunate he is

silvercuckoo sounds like she could be falsely claiming benefits as a lone parent and stealing from the system! It may be jealousy and projection about her own feelings of her finances. I don’t agree with that at all but don’t want to turn this into a benefit fraud thread! Just remember that you work hard for your money and she essentially steals most of hers

All these comparisons are meaningless unless you take into account all costs (mortgage, rent, childcare, travel), benefits, freebies and cash gifts and then look at the change left over.

I know what you mean though op, my df was recently saying he was concerned about spending. I was confused. Turns out he didn’t want to touch savings, which I do understand but I’d got the wrong impression.

@freetone

I don't think she does any fraud, she seems to be very tuned in with the legalities and everything.
What I meant, is that being "poor" on a large income does not necessarily indicate some sort of money mismanagement or splurging on luxuries, it all depends on the personal circumstances. A retired person outside London with mortgage paid on £100K is probably "rich", a single parent in London on £100K with a full childcare and housing bill is probably overdrawn each month. What happens on threads like this is that posters imagine that getting extra £xxx in gross income means you are immediately £xxx richer - but in reality, one starts paying tax, then loses subsidies such as 70% childcare, then tax credits and child benefit go, then the job becomes more demanding and extra expenses come with it. I have a three day business trip in mid-May that I HAVE to go to as a part of my job, it will cost almost half a grand in childcare for overnight / emergency cover. Not optional if I want to continue earning like I was, and quite common with jobs at £100K.

Yes it does completely depend on circumstances. Personally I’m talking about childless single people or couples with high income and very limited outgoings. Loads of disposable money, supercars, Rolexes, luxury clothing, mansions in foreign countries etc. Say my father earns 150k and his wife earns 50k, they don’t have any children together and I’m an adult, his rent is 1k a month, they have one luxury car as his wife doesn’t drive. They’d probably have a disposable income of 8k a month? You get the idea

Freetone, if you’re replying to me, my comment wasn’t to you as you gave details about their income and expenses already, but to other posters. I probably didn’t make that clear enough in my post, I separated into 2 paragraphs with the second one meant to you.

@freetone yikes, in what context do they think they are poor? What can't they do that they think ought to be able to?

I think this happens when people mix in circles where everyone else is comparatively more wealthy. Eg We have a relative who lives in massive house in expensive Surrey village, 4 kids in private school, she is SAHM, they have 4 holidays a year, go out and eat out constantly. But when we visit she complains they don’t have enough money. We worked out this is because every other sahm in this village has an even better house, inherited money, husbands are hedge fund managers, second homes, nannies, holiday constantly, plastic surgery, etc etc. So she considers herself to be poor by association and really isn’t at all satisfied with her lot.

People feel poor because of comparison to those around them. It’s not normally an objective assessment.

I love the £100k doesn’t go far posts and the implicit assumption that people on less money are too thick to understand that different people have different commitments and outgoings. I especially love the ‘it’s not all first class jets to the Bahamas and diamonds you know’ 😂 as if anyone on this thread has implied that.

MyShinyWhiteTeeth I do actually agree with you that everyone should be able to have a moan, but sensitively. I will always remember a week after my mum died texting with my best friend and her saying she hadn’t had a great week but wasn’t anything compared to what I’d been through and not wanting to tell me why. She said she felt awful talking about relationship problems when my mother had died. It has always stuck with me. I messaged her back saying she was so thoughtful but honestly, my pain doesn’t make hers any less and I don’t want her to treat me differently and it’d be a good feeling for me to be able to support her like she was me. Just because you both have different problems doesn’t mean the person with the ‘lesser’ problem isn’t hurting. The difference here is that she was aware of and acknowledged that it might have seemed off to complain about her relationship when I’d just lost my mum. Rich people on this thread complaining that it’s tough paying uni fees (I mean... imagine how hard it’d be for your kid to go to uni if you couldn’t contribute? How many extra hours on top of the course they’d have to work and how much debt they’d accrue?) or that £100k doesn’t go far without having the insight to see they’re wealthy is nuts. Shows you don’t have to have smarts to accrue cash I guess.

Sweetdreamer93 I do see your point re inverted snobbery. It blows my mind that anyone would look at me and consider me middle class, I just don’t see it. Not to get poverty competitive but I grew up on a council estate with two parents who never went to university, siblings with criminal records and substance abuse problems, parent with an addiction, I never really thought I’d amount to anything, lived in poverty working crap low paid insecure jobs for so long I wound up in debt and bankrupt by mid twenties due to being so unwell I kept running out of sick pay. A few years later so fortunately I’ve managed through luck and work to improve my situation and from the outside all you’d see is homeowner, partner is a doctor, professional career, high household income, two cars. And I’ve had people assume I have no idea what it’s like to be poor, no idea what it’s like to be in debt, no idea what it’s like not to be able to afford to eat, no idea what it’s like not to have a safety net of a family home to return to. I don’t blame anyone for making assumptions as it’s what we all do. But I don’t make assumptions in return. Someone’s accent, job, current income says nothing about the hardships they’ve endured in the past or their life experience. The difference is some people are well aware of their good fortune and position. Others are utterly oblivious. I think it’s a form of denial tbh, if you’ve been at the very bottom then reached the top it’s painful to think about how things used to be as it’s scary knowing it could still get that bad again or the outcome could have been different. Or people have always been snobs deep down and just feel they’re finally in their rightful place.

Poverty is always relative. Everyone in the west is rich to those living on £1 a day in parts of the third world. We all in this country have access to clean water, healthcare, education, etc. Struggling to pay rent is not the same as being homeless and sleeping on the streets and we don't have the kind of overcrowding that exists in other parts of the world.

If you have an income of £100k (which we do), then in this country yes, you're very comfortable and a long way from worrying about paying bills. And I would never complain about being 'skint' while we have all the savings that we have. But there's a big gap between being able to comfortably cover all bills and unexpected essential expenses and having to not budget at all and I think this is where the gap is that mean people with money say they are skint. DH is really bad for this, e.g. one of our showers broke down a few months ago, we got it replaced. Plumbers took ages to send the bill so we've only just got it. DH paid it from the joint a/c and asked me to transfer money from my cash ISA (which is for house expenses) to cover the cost. This story is dripping with privilage really, more than one shower and money in savings to cover unexpected expenses. But DH was all flustered about the fact that we had to pay a bill we'd assumed was already paid. He has no idea and the more I tell him it's all fine the more worked up he gets.

a single parent in London on £100K with a full childcare and housing bill is probably overdrawn each month. What happens on threads like this is that posters imagine that getting extra £xxx in gross income means you are immediately £xxx richer - but in reality, one starts paying tax, then loses subsidies such as 70% childcare, then tax credits and child benefit go, then the job becomes more demanding and extra expenses come with it. I have a three day business trip in mid-May that I HAVE to go to as a part of my job, it will cost almost half a grand in childcare for overnight / emergency cover. Not optional if I want to continue earning like I was, and quite common with jobs at £100K.

Poor you. Do you think a single parent on 25k in london somehow doesn’t have the same childcare, rent and other expenses that magically means they’re better off than you?

I earn 22k. Plus child benefit which takes me to 23.5k. I am not entitled to housing benefit, or tax credits. I can’t remember about childcare as my kids are teens now but it certainly wasn’t 70%.

But yes, your 150k job probably means you end up with less money/month

I also am required to go to certain conferences and CPD events to progress or apply for promotion. It’s not solely restricted to high earners.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for those on this thread claiming they earn so much it makes them poor. Add to that childcare costs are relatively short term, once they hit secondary age you’ll still be earning 150k, and in your old age will have a pretty big pension.

Bet you wouldn’t swap your 150k for my 23.5k. Despite somehow seeming to think you have less disposable income.

I had a friend who once told me that her family had to make a lot of sacrifices to send her and her sister to private school - they used to take their own cereal on both their annual foreign holidays to save on buying breakfast. Apparently because I went to state school I was lucky that my parents didn't have to work hard.

The school fees alone were more that both my parents earnt in a year, and we managed one foreign holiday in my entire childhood 🤣