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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I'm a bit shocked *trigger warning, rape*

69 replies

mbosnz · 02/05/2019 16:40

My DD (15), had a class exploring issues regarding rape today. Mixed class. No warning about the subject, not to parents, not to kids.

She heard two boys state that it was the victims' fault in the scenarios they were shown. Usual reasons - drunk, how they were dressed. Seemed to be a heavy focus on the scenario of stranger rape, although they were given the statistic that 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows. Girls were giggling in agreement with the boys saying it was the victims' fault. Oh, and males can't be raped, don't you know? Because they're bigger and stronger.

She was beside herself with rage. She was trying to argue, rebut and negate, and just got male patronised until she was ready to either punch the person she was arguing with, or cry. I'm proud of her that she stood her ground (and didn't punch him or cry).

Apparently the teacher was fairly aghast (male teacher).

I'm fairly aghast. Statistically it's highly likely that someone in that class has been victimised sexually. They had to sit there through that. Hearing all that.

AIBU here? Being overly shocked and upset?

OP posts:
needanappp · 02/05/2019 16:43

Honestly, I think they should have sent out a letter. We had a similar sort of lesson when I was at school and letters were sent out informing parents of the lesson and giving them be option of withdrawing their child from the lesson.

As you say, anyone in that room could have been a victim and been triggered by that.

AnneLovesGilbert · 02/05/2019 16:43

YANBU. Being aghast doesn’t suggest the teacher tackled the appalling comments. What exactly did he say to stop them being so disgusting?

needanappp · 02/05/2019 16:43

Also, just to clarify, was the male teacher correcting the students who placed the blame on the victim?

Original poster
mbosnz · 02/05/2019 16:48

When I say he was aghast, I think he was appalled, but so much so that he didn't (from the sounds of it) effectively contradict the victim blaming.

It's just - where are these kids getting these messages from?! Still!!

I said, so will they be tackling issues of consent next? 'Oh they've been doing that since year 7'. . . WELL MAYBE THEY NEED TO DO IT AGAIN THEN!!!

My daughter was fairly upset by it, despite not having been a victim.

OP posts:
SarahTancredi · 02/05/2019 16:49

I'd be shocked too.

And depressed and angry that at 15 they already think it's all their fault should something happen to them.

Who is teaching them that crap. The lesson sucked but all it did was highlight what they have been taught over the past 15 years

That's the biggest problem Sad

Aquilla · 02/05/2019 16:52

No one who spends 6 hours a day with teenagers would be surprised by this. They still tend to call a spade a spade and wear their hearts on their sleeves.

Original poster
mbosnz · 02/05/2019 16:53

And as for boys thinking that males can't be raped. . . hollow laugh. Hate to tell you laddie, it may be statistically a lot less likely, but yes, it can and does happen, and yes, it could happen to you. Seriously false sense of security there.

OP posts:
NotStayingIn · 02/05/2019 16:54

The disgusting opinions of those kids is exactly why these conversations should be had, so those ideas can be brought out and discussed. (So that wouldn’t be the thing I would be annoyed about, if you see what I mean.)

But this obviously needs a very good teacher to lead the conversation; was he guiding them through these opinions and challenging them? If your daughter was left to do that by herself that’s disgraceful. And I do agree, parents should surely be told beforehand? Also so you can then know and pick up the conversation afterwards if you feel it’s appropriate. Depending on the situation I might be tempted to discuss with the school how these things could be done better so they are more effective.

mogloveseggs · 02/05/2019 16:54

Dear god!
I'd be complaining.
Technically I think if anyone had been abused pastoral should know and withdraw the individual but if communication is not good then that might not happen.
We seem to be lurching backwards at an alarming rate!

Original poster
mbosnz · 02/05/2019 16:55

I understand that Aquilla - I've got two of my own! I understand they weren't saying things for effect - they sincerely believe these things. That's what concerns me.

In saying that, it was a big wake-up call for my girl about what many of her male (and female, sadly) contemporaries think.

OP posts:
sweeneytoddsrazor · 02/05/2019 16:57

A letter should have been sent out but I think its great that they can explore and discuss these issues. Hopefully it is something they can discuss further and all be given a turn to argue their points then go home and digest and think about them. That is what will make them change their minds.

opticaldelusion · 02/05/2019 16:59

I think it was an appropriate thing to discuss. I think it was depressing that the teacher didn't challenge the attitudes in class. What's the point of these sessions if it's not to educate children? Discussing rape is not some free and easy debate where any opinion is valid. Allowing damaging and archaic beliefs to persist is a dereliction of duty on behalf of the school. I'd talk to them about it.

BlingLoving · 02/05/2019 17:00

If you're outraged here, it should be about the uselessness of the teacher leading the discussion. All of this should not have come as a surprise to him and he should have been prepared to negate and challenge, while encouraging the children to think about what is really true.

TheInebriati · 02/05/2019 17:00

They had no business running such a sensitive class if the teacher couldn't deal with the potential issues before they came up.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 02/05/2019 17:00

I don't think you're U at all, but it may help to work out what you're upset at.

If it was the content of the lesson or how it was delivered, for example, you can complain to the school. (Sounds like it was really badly moderated)

If you think warning should have been given so DCs could have been withdrawn, then that's something you could feed back. Although it would worry me that the people who were withdrawn were perhaps the ones that actually need their views challenged...

If it's that the world is totally fucked, and we haven't made any progress at all, then I've nothing for you Angry. It's fucking grim, isn't it? But good on DD for standing her ground. At least she now knows who to avoid at parties Sad

opticaldelusion · 02/05/2019 17:01

Saying that victims invite rape because they're drunk etc. is not 'calling a spade a spade'. Dear God.

TFBundy · 02/05/2019 17:02

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

AhhhHereItGoes · 02/05/2019 17:04

Just shows you that views haven't really changed.

Having said that, group mentality would mean they egged each other on a bit.

Well done to your daughter it's young woman like her who can change things. You've clearly brought her up well!

Unfortunately, she's unlikely to change the mind of these people. In future I'd be deadpan and sarcastic.

"Let's hope you don't go to prison Billy otherwise Muscle Mike will show you what it's like when you drop the soap. It will be your fault, of course Smile" Sweet smile.

"Oh suuure Alex, a woman being drunk makes it her fault. Suppose if your Dads drunk and gets his wallet stolen, it's also his fault as he's drunk? What do you mean no?"

"Oh the girl was asking for it because she had a short skirt on? Oh I get you. The amount of times I've wanted to sexually assault a good looking guy wearing tight shorts well, it's so often I don't know how I control myself."

"Oh you can't be raped by a partner because they have given consent in the past. I get what you mean. If a wife uses her husbands credit card she has every right if he let her use it once. What do you mean that's different?"

Etc.

It's such a shame fathers don't teach their sons the right way to behave. It's almost like they don't care hmmmm...

justarandomtricycle · 02/05/2019 17:04

If serious, it's understandable that you're shocked!

Were they possibly joking? When I was a teenager if there was a sensitive and caring answer we were 'supposed to' give to please a teacher, especially if there was the slightest hint of them holding the matter important, it would provoke teenagers to say the opposite and find it hilarious when the teacher clutched their pearls, but none of the kids meant it or even cared much. Obviously still bad but this is the variety of arseheads that secondary school children sometimes are.

lookingelsewhere · 02/05/2019 17:05

Have you heard the lyrics and seen the videos to some of the latest music these days? Shock I feel about 100 saying that...

AhhhHereItGoes · 02/05/2019 17:06

Oh and I don't think parents should be able to just withdraw the child as they need to be aware of these topics. So many threads on here where parents are horrified their child is learning Sex Ed means it's unfortunate but by secondary they need to be aware of others behaviour- positive and negative.

Widowodiw · 02/05/2019 17:09

I’d say there was an opportunity in this class for healthy debate that would have challenged those view points. That what you wear doesn’t mean it’s your fault, that males do get raped (teacher at this point should have had some newspaper reports showing evidence of male rape), dangers of drinks being spiked, an awareness that if you are drunk you should look to still remain safe (we shouldn’t need to do this but that’s a reality). Sounds like the teacher was ill prepared by the boys comments. There will always be comments like this partly because they are teenagers and they see the world differently. Partly because they may have older male relations that still have these views and the teenagers have yet to develop their own views. Healthy debate and different opinions would have been useful for these boys.

We all have the sex talk with our kids but I do wonder how many parents talk about consent and rape. It shouldn’t just be the teachers responsibility. If I was that teacher I would be speaking to the parents about those males views.

SarahTancredi · 02/05/2019 17:11

I think there may be a degree of " distancing" in the reactions.

Defining these reasons ( which obviously arent reasons ) gives them the ability to think that there is something they can do to stop it. That it wont happen to then if they do X Y & Z.

Parents will tell their kids to come home before it gets dark or dont walk the ally way stick to the main road. But dont think twice about leaving them home alone with their brother , having uncle Jeff babysit etc. Its easier to blame some dark figure hiding in the bushes because the reality is their husbands sons and fathers are the more likely candidates.

You only have to look at any thread about raoe or assult and theres plenty of NAMALT. These issues cant be discussed without people getting on the defensive.

Sounds like this teacher cared more about protecting reputations than the truth

The most important message never gets through

That whatever you wear however far you decide to go with a boy/man. If you say stop or no. That's enough. That it's not your fault

DishingOutDone · 02/05/2019 17:13

Similar thing happened to my DD in year 10, she said the atmosphere afterwards was sickening, as if the boys had been told that it was ok to talk about raping girls. There was a lot of graphic description and the teacher who'd been brought in to give the presentation encouraged the boys so as to show he was "down with the kids" introducing his talk with "wot wan".

The boys could only cope with what they'd been shown on one level, the teaching staff had no idea what to do, and the girls took the brunt of it. Certain secondary schools are where the seeds of violence - of all kinds - are being sown.

DishingOutDone · 02/05/2019 17:14

(sorry - auto-correct - " ... introducing his talk with "wot gwan") (anyway whatever, he was a wanker).