I'm a bit shocked *trigger warning, rape*

[mbosnz]

My DD (15), had a class exploring issues regarding rape today. Mixed class. No warning about the subject, not to parents, not to kids.

She heard two boys state that it was the victims' fault in the scenarios they were shown. Usual reasons - drunk, how they were dressed. Seemed to be a heavy focus on the scenario of stranger rape, although they were given the statistic that 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows. Girls were giggling in agreement with the boys saying it was the victims' fault. Oh, and males can't be raped, don't you know? Because they're bigger and stronger.

She was beside herself with rage. She was trying to argue, rebut and negate, and just got male patronised until she was ready to either punch the person she was arguing with, or cry. I'm proud of her that she stood her ground (and didn't punch him or cry).

Apparently the teacher was fairly aghast (male teacher).

I'm fairly aghast. Statistically it's highly likely that someone in that class has been victimised sexually. They had to sit there through that. Hearing all that.

AIBU here? Being overly shocked and upset?

This teacher was not prepared for the pervasiveness of toxic masculinity. I think it has always been an issue but seems to be louder and louder these days. He needs to revisit this and tackle.

I really feel for you and your lovely girl... xxx

(and i say this as a mother of sons!!)

It's sounds like a hell of a lot more lessons are needed.

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett - you're not wrong!

I know I most probably sound like I'm clutching my pearls. Mainly I'm sad, furious and frustrated.

I agree we absolutely need to be placing the light upon these beliefs, by having these discussions, and challenging them. But yeah - this is definitely not a topic on which 'everyone's got an opinion, they're all equally valid, and you all get equal time to share your opinion', and leave a 15 year old girl to be the sole voice of sanity in the wilderness.

She likes and respects the teacher, was happy with his clear personal opinions and distress - but it does sound like the teacher was not effective in challenging the beliefs expressed.

And I'm not bagging the teacher - though it most probably sounds like I am. It would be a very, very hard subject to discuss and moderate with 30 odd teenagers - possibly particularly in a mixed class.

Rape myths are pervasive, you see them here all the time. I'm not surprised to hear they are alive and kicking in classrooms too.

Thatnks, KaliforniaDreamz. She's okay, I'm glad she could come home and vent at me, and we had a very cathartic feminist rant together!

I'm going to go don some pearls and maybe pour a stiff cocktail. Okay, a vat of wine.

You don't sound like you're clutching your pearls AT ALL OP. There's so much right-on-ness with young people, it can be a huge shock to find out it's only skin-deep.

This is exactly why they need these lessons.

Just to say the message will have sunk in wih some but they will go along with the 'bants' for fear of looking silly in front of their mates.

I have never complained to our head about anything, but in your situation I absolutely would.

I would be in his office at 9am tomorrow discussing this at length.

He teacher should not have raised the subject if he had no idea how to handle the difficult questions/preconceptions that were to be expected.

Those very same children need to be given a talk about rape, and the consequences with someone professionally capable with the consent of their parents and full advance notice given.

I can't imagine how a rape victim would have felt in that situation, I can only hope there wasn't one there at the time.

A disgrace, and you should voice your concerns to the head immediately.

I would contact the teacher. They have the chance to make a come back in next week’s lesson. They may have been expecting very different opinions to be expressed, and be unprepared to handle this. So hopefully will put more work into what to do next - but a message from you might help with that in case he decides to leave it!
I don’t think letters home should be sent for such things as lots of kids would be removed who could benefit from a (sensitively handled) discussion. Consent shouldn’t be an optional part of education I think.

Sounds like the teacher hadn't been prepared at all for the lesson. It's all very well to add all these additional things to the curriculum, but clearly staff aren't being supported with the subject matter.

If it's like any other school there is probably plenty of sexual assault and sexual harassment by boys against girls going on under the radar that is never dealt with, so it sounds like a stunningly inappropriate topic to raise, unless the teacher was able to take a firm stand against the misogyny of the boys.

I would suggest complaining with your central question being exactly what were the children supposed to be learning from the class and what did the teacher think was the outcome. I'm sorry your daughter was upset, it sounds like she did incredibly well to stand her ground.

And ask them what their school policy is on sexual assault and sexual harassment is. It's likely that they won't have one even though it's incredibly common.

I think I'll definitely have to give them some feedback. She really doesn't want me to though. . .

Sounds like the wrong teacher to handle the class. That needs to be fed back to the Head.

My teens have all done this kind of class in school, but the two teachers who take the class are excellent.

The kids with 'it's their fault' views are challenged to think about difference scenarios and from what my three say by the end of the classes (it's not a one off in their school) there's a real change in attitudes from a lot of them. My girls also say there is a bit of a change in attitude, and language, from a good number of the boys generally.

They are also pretty good at teaching that rape, or abuse, is most likely from someone you know and a lot about abusive relationships.

When those teachers are not available they postpone the classes - the right teacher is vital in that kind of class.

I'll tell you why I think these views persist, and so casually.

Porn .

Pure porn-watching levels - starting so young on what once would have been called 'hardcore porn', watching it all the time, and the content of the scenarios:

'Step dad gives it to his SD'
'Mom schools son'
'Taxi sex'

All videos with NO obvious consent, the woman is just a series of holes, all focused on the man's needs/orgasm etc etc.

I believe also this is why the rates of child abuse by children on children has gone rocketing up. Schools, typically are weak and pathetic beyond words on teaching children about this stuff, about handling bullying etc. To have not pulled these boys and girls up on their awful viewpoints is actually professionally reprehensible as far as I'm concerned.

I think you need to know what the teacher said. Any competent teacher would be prepared for at least one or two idiots coming out with that one and should be ready to tackle it by demonstrating beyond argument that it's a load of rubbish. It may be that that didn't happen, or of course that it did but your daughter didn't really take it in as, on her own admission, she was rightly wound up.

So I wouldn't go in complaining, but I would query whether these kids actually have got the message and, if not, what they propose to do about it. Maybe they need to get in a speaker from a rape crisis organisation or similar.

I reach a lot of PSHCE and used to be quite shocked about this kind of stuff. Sadly, I no longer am though as it's not uncommon. Rape seems to be becoming so normalised through porn and various computer games.

I had a boy tell me recently that 'my dad says most girls get raped, it's just the way it goes so they need to deal with it'.

A girl told me that when she dresses 'like a slut' she knows she might get raped. 'Again, that's just the way it goes'.

These classes have thrown up many safeguarding issues that I've had to address. It's tragic.

I think there should have been some warning for this ie, a letter home beforehand. I would have struggled to listen to such shite that was being spouted even if I wasn’t a victim of rape.

I think it’s a good thing in theory, for a class to discuss, however they sound like they need educating about it all from someone who knows what they’re talking about. Those attitudes are worrying as well as sickening and what the fuck was the teacher doing to rein it in?

so will they be tackling issues of consent next? 'Oh they've been doing that since year 7'

🙇🏻‍♀️ Clearly not very bloody well...

I think that given some of those children will have been sexually abused, they should have been told in the previous lesson what this lesson would be discussing, then if any of them weren’t up to participating, they could have asked their parents to arrange for them to miss the lesson in the least obvious way possible.

For the others, I think it’s a good subject fir 15 year olds to discuss.

However, this teacher (no matter how good generally) was not the one to do it. He was in over his depth, well over his depth. He has done FAR more harm than good and it needs sitting out. The HT needs to know how badly this went, how your DD was left to try to put them straight and how upset she is now because she didn’t have the support she should have had.

I’d be fuming, but I’d be very calm and measured in the hope that it’s seen for the fuck up it was, rather than me just being ‘that parent’.

I’m very impressed with your daughter for saying what she knows is right and not just leaving them to say it unchallenged. VERY impressed.

It’s sad that her peers aren’t who she thought they were. Learning that is a harsh lesson in life. I hope it doesn’t hit her too hard 🌷

I'm definitely not going to go in guns blazing, and also know that possibly my girl's perception was a bit skewed, as she was right in the midst of it, and really feeling besieged! (And I also have every sympathy for the teacher - not an easy topic).

DointItForTheKids and Catchingbentcoppers - sadly, I don't think you're wrong.

I also question just how effectual schools and teachers can be at unteaching what kids are learning, not just from porn, but from their family's at home. Especially given how undermining some people are when it comes to teachers and education.

So in a class of what 20 or 30 15 year olds yours was the only child who did not think that the girls were asking to be raped and that boys could not be raped? The only child? And the teacher just let the class carry on thinking that?

IncrediblySadToo - thank you for the lovely kind words about my daughter. I'm impressed too - although knowing her, I'd expect nothing less! She has a fierce sense of right and wrong, has identified as a feminist from a very young age, and is not afraid to speak her mind. (Hence the wine. For Mum that is.)

She was angry, she was sad, but she's also a cynic, so I think that it wasn't entirely out the left field for her.

This is terrifying. Agree with AhhhHereItGoes arguments and would have hoped the teacher would have opened up discussions to lead them to the same conclusions. I'm terrified of my DD starting high school.

So in a class of what 20 or 30 15 year olds yours was the only child who did not think that the girls were asking to be raped and that boys could not be raped? The only child? And the teacher just let the class carry on thinking that?

That was her perception, and her feeling. I'm not saying that this is entirely accurate - as I said, she was right in the thick of it, and feeling very besieged!