To have left?

[Grumpasaurus]

Today, DH, DS (2.5), and PIL went into a pop up art gallery. DS was not in a pram and wandering around with a plastic caterpillar, the lady running the art gallery was quite sweet with him (when she thought we were buying art!). To be 100% fair we should have put him in the pram simply do to the location.

DS accidentally tripped and knocked one of the fake wall panels (sort of like a plank of plaster in the middle of the room) with his shoulder, which weren't screwed in well. The wall jolted and two framed prints fell off the back. The canvasses were absolutely fine and the frames had two tiny (I mean about 1-2mm at most), which were hard to see as the frame were antique style and therefore distressed. The frames were just hung on one small nail (I attach photos) and the walls weren't stable at all (I attach photos of the poorly done fittings).

We obviously felt awful and apologised profusely and asks PIL to take DS out of shop whilst we discussed what to do. The lady went mental. We asked her what she would like us to do, she screamed at us that we weren't going to get away with it. We said clearly we weren't trying to and we're standing there hat in hands wanting to find a resolution. We offered to contact the artist (out of the country apparently), pay her insurance deductible (no insurance apparently), take the frames to the framer to ask them to touch up the paint or get fixed, or just pay £500 towards costs of her getting the frames fixed. She was not having it and only wanted us to buy the prints- for £3.5k!!!!

I said we weren't willing to do that as a) the frames were barely damaged at all, b) the prints were totally fine, the wall was not secure and the prints weren't hung safely.

She kept trying to muddy the issue and force us to pay. She wouldn't entertain any other discussion. Four blokes were in the shop and heard the argument and said if they were us, they would leave. I offered to call the police or a lawyer friend to discuss liability. She refused. We asked her for a solution she wanted- she said full ticket price. So I said, well, we will leave then, and you can deal with it. I said she should have insurance!

Only when she thought we were going to leave did she want to negotiate. She stormed over to the paintings, and GET THIS, gently knocked the same wall and ANOTHER PAINTING FELL OFF. She said that was our fault too!

So I said I would take photos of the damage and contact the artist myself. She then picked the photos up and hid them, saying she would only bring them back if she took my details. I said no, we had tried to be reasonable, so we left.

First: AIBU

Second: what would you do now? The damage was seriously minimal and actually didn't look any different than the distressed effect. I also do not know if the frames were already dinted as others in the collection were (photos attached).

Look, the woman behaved weirdly and unprofessionally, we can all agree on that. What she should have done, imo, was say to you that she didn't know how the artist would want to handle it, they were away, the show was about to close etc, and could she take your contact info either to get back to you or to pass on to the artist. If she had done that calmly and efficiently, from the sounds of things you would have complied. Once the value, of any, of the damge was known, you would perhaps have negotiated over how much was your responsibility, based on the fact that your toddler had been unsupervised but that her pop-up show had been suboptimally hung. Given that she behaved so erratically and aggressively, perfectly reasonable, as I've said, to deal direct with the artist instead, but the fact that she did so isn't the artist's fault. To suggest that the artist is somehow negligent because they 'used a curator for their art who is irresponsible and seems out to make a buck' betrays a complete ignorance of the circumscribed opportunities that exist for professional artists - they do not get to dictate the terms under which their work is shown. Framing is also one of their biggest costs - often more than the cost of producing the art itself - and there is a real possibility that the artist will be badly out of pocket because of what happened today, which was at least partially caused by the fact that you took a toddler into a gallery and let them walk around by themself. You can say now that the damage was negligible but in that case why did you offer £500 to cover it? I mean, who does that? I'm sorry, OP, I know you don't want to hear it, but you're out of order on this.

I would had a go at her for leaving a trip hazard and almost injuring my child. It could have been anyone tripping over it and a painting could have fallen on him.

She was a bit of a bitch but seriously why on earth would you let a toddler loose in an art gallery??!!

Neighbours of mine had a similar problem when her kids accidentally scratched a car. The driver wanted a fortune and called the police on them. The tiny scratched was fixed for next to nothing and the police ended up arresting the driver because their conduct.

I wonder if this was some kind of set up.

So I spoke to a friend the morning who runs pop up art galleries in London. He sets them up in the west end at shows so similar kind of environment- casual but still arty.

I sent him the photos and he said:

1. the hangings were insufficient and unsafe

2. the walls were not set up properly and weren't sturdy enough for heavy prints

3. the frames were mock antique rather than actually antique and were not real wood but that soft mix- and therefore wouldn't have been more than £100 new, and a framer could have just sanded and retouched the marks if they really wanted to.

4. she should have insurance to set up and probably does, and was probably either lying or hadn't set up the business properly

5. given the above the issue is between her and the artist and not us.

@MattFreisWeatherReport I offered her £500 because I didn't know any of the above. I am not an expert and didn't know anything o now know about mirror hanging and proper walls and public liability insurance etc.

I am sorry but a few exhibiting artists have been on here and they also said our offer was unnecessary, as did my friend who actually works in an almost identical setting, so I think I feel both morally and legally okay about leaving it.

Good op, she is a chancer CF, and a ride unhinged one at that. I said that the walls were not put up properly, that should never have happened. What if somebody unsteady on their feet bumped into it or somebody in a wheelchair.

Forget about it. She’s a chancer; the pop up hadn’t gone well- she’d hung the pictures shoddily and she was hoping to turn it into a success by scamming you.

Thank goodness you didn't give her any money is all I can say.

Popcorntwice Sun 28-Apr-19 21:17:07
She sounds batshit but I can't understand why on earth it would even occur to someone to let a toddler walk round an art gallery.

They positively encourage it in the Turner Contemporary.

It all sounds like a 'Dodge City shitty' set-up and you and your husband come across as honest and honourable. The woman 'in charge' sounds like an histrionic bullshitting opportunistic chancer.

I'd bet that if she'd taken your £500 it wouldn't have ended up in the artist's account... but then unless you had £500 on you in cash she'd have had to take a payment by card or give you an account number to transfer funds. Trying to get you to pay for the pictures in full was her best bet in that situation. She wouldn't have any awkward explaining to do to the artist. You could contact the artist - be interesting to see if they'd been made aware of the incident.

If the artist knew the installation set up was that flimsy an arrangement they shouldn't expect any financial reparation either, IMO.

I think you were okay to leave and I personally would not have been happy for her to have my details. I'd only give those to the artist, if it came to it.

You spent an hour trying to resolve the situation and she wasn't having it?? Hmmm... you are almost being unreasonable coming on here to ask if you were unreasonable

Well, it sounds like you've got it covered, OP. Thank goodness you have a friend who 'runs pop up art galleries in London'. The only mystery is why you posted here in the first place.

Your friend is quite right!

I help run a community art space. Even as amateurs and a charity we have to have adequately safe hanging structures and insurance. I can't imagine any of our artists being happy to find their work was hung on a single nail and picture hook!

Don't waste any more thought on it. Hopefully the woman will have a re-think and will do much better next time!

I can't understand why on earth it would even occur to someone to let a toddler walk round an art gallery We actively encourage it too. We even have a wet space, so all the little horrors can have a go! Just imagine, kids and art, hey?!

Am I totally missing something here? Why can a toddler not be allowed to walk around a gallery? He wasn’t being silly or running! He tripped over something anyone could have tripped over. I think the OP was very reasonable in her response. The gallery was lucky the picture didn’t fall on the child’s head!

Looks like many people on mumsnet believe children should be strapped in a buggy or holding an adult’s hand at all times! Believe it or not even 2 year olds can behave appropriately! And he obviously was being supervised by the four adults that he was with!!

She sounds like a chancer OP. She probably saw an opportunity to shift those prints by guilting you, judging by the fact she had an answer for everything! Don’t give it any more headspace.

And YES! To PP’s wondering why on Earth you’d not let your child walk (not run!) around an art gallery. I’ve been to several with mine over the years and it’s a great opportunity to spend time together, doing something different. I’ve got a picture of my eldest at 4 years old, doing a funky pose next to a Salvador Dali piece, worth a tad more than 3.5k I’m sure but also not installed on a shitty bit of plasterboard...

@MattFreisWeatherReport I feel like you aren't listening and just have me labelled as selfish and ignorant to the plight of artists. I do believe if you could see the photos you would feel differently. It's a shame for the artist but it was not my fault appropriate hanging was neither supplied nor used.

I posted because at the time I didn't know about mirror hanging fixtures, appropriate walls, whether it was likely the artist was abroad and uncontactable, whether it was likely or normal for a pop up gallery not to have insurance, and whether £500 was a reasonable offer.

I also wondered if anyone would have followed it up further.

The consensus was unanimous except for you: their fault, no further action required.

My friend, well he is actually the husband of my friend, is currently in Greece so I had to wait for a response from him and couldn't just ring. He does indeed run pop up galleries in theatres, eg, pieces related to a specific play or musical, and also is a semi-professional art dealer, who doesn't mince his words. I sent him the photos and copied the text I wrote for my original post and his sentiments were the same as everyone else, except for you. He also noted the frames were cheap and advised how the easily the "damage" could be fixed...

I am a totally reasonable person who just wanted some advice. I do want DS to learn about art but next time will just be a bit more aware of hazards as he is a toddler and toddlers are by nature clumsy and not hugely aware of their surroundings.

Conclusions: be more careful with DS even when he's not mucking about, but no further action needed from me now.

@BettysLeftTentacle yes, I was kind of hoping to do the same with DS. My mom is an artist and so was my brother in a way, I am an amateur photographer and so is my dad, but there isn't a lot of creativity on DHs side so we like going with our son to mooch about. He likes to say "I like that one, I not like that one, that one pink mummy, that one nice" and hopefully we can keep doing that but just with a bit more caution. I love the arts and hope he does too and he does seem to enjoy them so far. He is also GENERALLY a well behaved 2.5 year old as long as you are engaging him in what you are doing.

Please don't stop taking your kid to galleries. This was an unfortunate one off. Kids need to be supervised and need to learn how to act appropriately in different situations; they also need to explore and discover and try out different things. You're doing a great job, OP.

@ScrimshawTheSecond thank you- and I agree. I will keep trying!