To have left?

[Grumpasaurus]

Today, DH, DS (2.5), and PIL went into a pop up art gallery. DS was not in a pram and wandering around with a plastic caterpillar, the lady running the art gallery was quite sweet with him (when she thought we were buying art!). To be 100% fair we should have put him in the pram simply do to the location.

DS accidentally tripped and knocked one of the fake wall panels (sort of like a plank of plaster in the middle of the room) with his shoulder, which weren't screwed in well. The wall jolted and two framed prints fell off the back. The canvasses were absolutely fine and the frames had two tiny (I mean about 1-2mm at most), which were hard to see as the frame were antique style and therefore distressed. The frames were just hung on one small nail (I attach photos) and the walls weren't stable at all (I attach photos of the poorly done fittings).

We obviously felt awful and apologised profusely and asks PIL to take DS out of shop whilst we discussed what to do. The lady went mental. We asked her what she would like us to do, she screamed at us that we weren't going to get away with it. We said clearly we weren't trying to and we're standing there hat in hands wanting to find a resolution. We offered to contact the artist (out of the country apparently), pay her insurance deductible (no insurance apparently), take the frames to the framer to ask them to touch up the paint or get fixed, or just pay £500 towards costs of her getting the frames fixed. She was not having it and only wanted us to buy the prints- for £3.5k!!!!

I said we weren't willing to do that as a) the frames were barely damaged at all, b) the prints were totally fine, the wall was not secure and the prints weren't hung safely.

She kept trying to muddy the issue and force us to pay. She wouldn't entertain any other discussion. Four blokes were in the shop and heard the argument and said if they were us, they would leave. I offered to call the police or a lawyer friend to discuss liability. She refused. We asked her for a solution she wanted- she said full ticket price. So I said, well, we will leave then, and you can deal with it. I said she should have insurance!

Only when she thought we were going to leave did she want to negotiate. She stormed over to the paintings, and GET THIS, gently knocked the same wall and ANOTHER PAINTING FELL OFF. She said that was our fault too!

So I said I would take photos of the damage and contact the artist myself. She then picked the photos up and hid them, saying she would only bring them back if she took my details. I said no, we had tried to be reasonable, so we left.

First: AIBU

Second: what would you do now? The damage was seriously minimal and actually didn't look any different than the distressed effect. I also do not know if the frames were already dinted as others in the collection were (photos attached).

Suggest she goes through her insurance. She knew full well your ds was 'loose' and didn't act concerned.
She is lucky he wasn't hurt. Could have been you going for cash!

Anyone could have knocked into the wall, that's what insurance is for. You should have left long before!

@MyKingdomForBrie yes! I meant to say it almost took an hour as she kept leaving us waiting to come to our senses busying herself with other things. It wasn't until the four blokes said they would just leave, and then she knocked the same damn wall and tried to blame THAT on us, that I thought "fuck this!"

Artist here - I've curated several shows and these pics should have been mirror plated to the wall to prevent both this kind of scenario, and also to prevent the art falling and injuring a viewer.
Had that falling art work injured your child due to its poor installation, you would have, quite rightly, been very annoyed and possibly have needed to take matters further.
To be fair if I had been curating the exhibition I would have asked you to maybe hold your child's hand/supervise him, though really, it was a fantastic opportunity for you to pick him up and go around the artwork with him and point colours/subject matter out to him. Engage him!

The way the curator dealt with the situation was not good though. I imagine she was trying - in a panicky kind of way - to support the uninsured artist, who really should have been insured. In fact, most places expect this of an artist before they get their work anywhere near a venue.
Your efforts to recompense were more than adequate and she is probably regretting her refusal of it.

In brief - a badly displayed and unsafe art exhibition, an inexperienced curator and artist, and visitors who really shouldn't need a notice to point out that maybe an art gallery isn't the best place to allow children to roam around unsupervised.

Yanbu at all, I can't see what more you could have done and actually, based on what you've said, I don't believe you would be found legally liable if it came to that. As it is there's no harm done to the paintings or the toddler (though probably 5 years knocked off your life at the shock of her £3.5k demand ).

I would not pay anything. Invite them to sue you through the courts.

The gallery should have hung the paintings and secured the walls in a way that took into account the likelihood of a visitor bumping into them. Their failure to do so was negligent and endangered the paintings and potentially the visitors. They would not have a leg to stand on in court.

She sounds like a total amateur. Not your fault she doesn't have a clue how to run an art gallery. Forget about it.

It doesn't sound as if the display arrangement was safe and secure, if a trip hazard led to artworks falling off the walls. Your offers were more than reasonable.

@FlamingoFlamenco that is really helpful, I really appreciate that information.

And totally- it seemed initially okay as he was staying away from the art and saying "I like that I don't like that" but it was a risk just to have him loose!

And I never thought about suing her but you are all quite right- the wall hooks were sloppily nailed into wobbly plasterboard- disaster waiting to happen!

Can't say i have ever seen a 2 yr in a pram

@suzy2b you clearly know my toddler- he hates the damn thing and it's a constant battle to get him in. We are going abroad next week and I am toying with the idea of leaving it at home...

Think flamingo has answered it best...
Yanbu at all to have offered £500 which means you were aware you made the mistake of not keeping toddler in pram or hand. Everyone makes mistakes..Curator sounds mental and certainly should take some responsibility for poorly fixed displays! H&s hazard!

And I never thought about suing her but you are all quite right- the wall hooks were sloppily nailed into wobbly plasterboard- disaster waiting to happen!

OP, you sound very reasonable (apart from your original mistake, which you completely acknowledge), but don't push it now!

Can't say i have ever seen a 2 yr in a pram

You have. You probably didn't think about the age of the kid in them.

Buggies are design to fit them comfortably until 3ish. Why would it be fine to see a child in a car seat in his car, but not in a pram? Same amount of exercise for them you know.

YANBU

You offered to reimburse the gallery for the damage, they effectively declined your (very reasonable) offer. Replacing two frames would likely cost less than £500.

I disagree that you shouldn't take small children to art galleries, I think it is fine to do this provided that they are being calm and well behaved.

Tripping over something can happen to anyone- I wonder what the attitude of the gallery owner would have been had a 70 year old tripped, rather than your 2 year old.

@LaCastafiore ha ha totally fair, and I do think I am a fairly reasonable person. I don't generally have a temper and usually handle conflict well, as does DH, so the fact that we couldn't find a solution was likely down to her. £500 for us is a fair whack of money and it would have had to come out of DS education savings so it wasn't a flippant offer on our part.

God I would be suffering many sleepless nights waiting for security camera footage to be shown somewhere -wasn’t there one from The US last year where a toddler knocked an expensive piece of art over in a foyer whilst the parents were sat on a sofa?

Was the art any good?

@SoftSheen that's kind of what I am trying o say, but I don't want to be "that" mom whose child can do no wrong.

He wasn't running around or being noisy (for once) he was showing his silly caterpillar the pictures and we were talking about which he liked and didn't like. He only tripped when he was going from me to his grandad and he wasn't running or even doing his renowned silly walk! He did just trip.

Whatever the outcome, I would love to hear the other person's assessment of the damage your child caused. It was a stupid and thoughtless thing to do, whatever the consequences.

@LadyRannaldini I tried to post a photo of the dint on one but people say they can't see it. I tried to take a photo of the other damage but she took it before I could, so I took photos of the other frames that were done in a similar distressed effect which had more "damage" built into them than was caused.

Equally I don't even know if the damage was from him but had to assume it was.

You were being unreasonable not having baby in a pram/holding hand in the art gallery. Because of the risk of what happened, happening.

BUT her reaction was WAY OTT and she was probably just a grabby idiot who saw this as an opportunity to try and get some money.

Just forget it she was being ridiculous!

The gallery should have hung the paintings and secured the walls in a way that took into account the likelihood of a visitor bumping into them. Their failure to do so was negligent and endangered the paintings and potentially the visitors. They would not have a leg to stand on in court.

They might also like to add a notice, No unsupervised children allowed.
Nothing's ever the fault of the parent is it?

You did more than most people would have, it was an accident. The paintings obviously weren't secured safely and no insurance? For pictures going for £3500?She sounds like an amateur chancer, don't lose sleep over it. Even strangers who witnessed it told you to leave as you were definately not being unreasonable.

This is my area and I could probably advise you better with more information, but I can't see the pics and you haven't given enough detail for me to judge what kind of gallery it was, both of which are relevant obviously. But, broadly, a commercial gallery (as opposed to, say, a municipal museum-style gallery that owns/borrows/shows art but isn't selling it) will typically be insured for public liability. So if the painting had fallen on your child's head, they would be covered, unless it had been hung so negligently that the accident was forseeable, which might limit cover. They would not generally be insured for the value of the painting itself, which is the artist's responsibility. Artists vary in their willingness/ability to insure for the full sales price/the cost of production/any amount at all, so it would be tricky for the gallerist to know how to negotiate on the artist's behalf (i.e. what would be suitable to charge for the damage). From what you have said, they may not have hung the painting well and it sounds as though they handled the incident badly, but then again this is every gallerist's worst nightmare. Unquestionably your child should have been better supervised, especially with that kind of price tag at issue. I think there is fault on both sides and leaving with nothing resolved and no exchange of details was definitely inappropriate. You probably have some kind of insurance yourself (e.g. a personal liability extension to your household policy) that would cover the cost. At the end of the day, you did the damage, even if your liability is reduced by some kind of contributory negligence on the part of the gallerist.

YABU. Go back and discuss it in a more civilised way once everyone has had the chance to calm down, and talk through some of these issues.

I'm an artist; agree with flamingo. If I put pics in a show I expect them to be hung safely and looked after (they aren't always, such is life) and I'd expect the gallery to be insured.

I would guess she freaked out because she's not insured and will now have to tell the artist that their pictures/frames are damaged. Frames for mid-range work shouldn't usually cost more than about £100 each I would guess (depending on size, etc ), so your offer was generous.

Sounds like you were reasonable, but I would also not let a wee kid run about in a gallery. That said, it's a space open to the public and accidents happen - this sounds like exactly that. I wouldn't worry too much about it.