Help. Have you ever given husband an ultimatum - couples counselling or separate?

[mrsmiyagi19]

My husband and I have been at a communication stalemate for a long time now and I’m to the point where I actually can’t take it anymore. I’m so beaten down by the turmoil and I can see now how it’s affecting my toddler more and more. We have a huge amount of unresolved issues my husband chooses to pretend don’t exist (“You just need to learn to be happy” ... end of story), reacts in anger and dismissal any time I ever express any discontent and I’m fed up with chasing my tail and feeling I’m the only one making any effort to compromise and solve issues. He’s a brick wall.

Last hope is counselling, though he’s refused to do this every time I’ve brought it up over the years, so the damage has just gotten worse and I actually have little hope it could even help at this late stage. Honestly feel life would be so much easier without him. BUT, I feel it’s worth a try, if not just to assure myself I’ve done everything I could on my end.

I’ve never issued an ultimatum in my life but now’s the time. I’d like to know if anyone else has said to their partners that they either attend couples counselling or separate...? If so, why (was it like my situation where one of you had previously refused) and how did it go? Any advice on how to do it? I’m thinking to ask and give him five days or so to mull it over before he gives me a decision. He’s very volatile so I have to make sure I’m feeling strong first because I anticipate an explosion. Need to stick to my guns.

Just sit him down and tell him you are planning on going to counseling. You can arrange couples counseling if he wants to try to mend your marriage, or you can go by yourself and work out how best to separate. Up to him.
No judgment, no yelling, just a calm, ‘this is what is going to happen, your choice’.
Then leave the ball in his court for a few days.
Investigate both couples counseling and individual so you can make the appropriate appointment.

That's great advice.

Our situations sound similar op.

I didn’t give an ultimatum but I did force the issue a few years ago and we had some counselling. It did bring us closer, but tbh I feel it only helped delay the inevitable for a few years. At the end of the day, dh’s refusal to ‘hear’ how I feel, or to engage in resolving things (and the anger/dismissal every time I brought it up) were things only he could tackle - and he wasn’t/isn’t able to.

Sorry to sound downbeat but what I would say is to be really sure you are actually prepared to leave when/if you issue the ultimatum. Have really thought through the implications (practicals &emotional). Perhaps have some counselling sessions yourself first to make sure you are really in that space.

It’s taken 2 years if counselling for me, but am finally seeing that dh’s behaviour does not make for a workable relationship, and in fact some bits are abusive ( not that he would ever accept that). So am preparing to leave. Good luck to you.

That is great advice. Thanks @Weenurse. Is this what you did?

I have seen a psych alone on and off since the birth of my child. I’m assuming if he actually agreed (unlikely) we couldn’t use her? Just worried we end up going to one and they take his side. He’s very good at playing the victim.

Yes I did the "counselling or separate ultimatum" - because he refused to see the need for it . There were some short lived moments of insight but no changes endured, even though I'm sure even he could see life was better when he made the effort. With hindsight perhaps it just never mattered enough to him that I was desperately unhappy, because he was getting all he needed out of the relationship. I finally divorced him which he was furious about and he's now lying to and gaslighting our children.
I would say ultimatums are pointless because if he's not committed to making things better it won't work,and even if it did you may feel resentful that you had had to issue one.

Our stories do sound similar @Walkingwounded. I am prepared to separate. I’ve been very worried about it because of his volatility and the fact he doesn’t play fair, so worried about custody and financial issues. But emotionally I’ve pretty much checked out. I’m an optimist and always hoped for the best, but after years of thinking I could help by making changes on my part I realise the bulk of the change needs to come from him and he’s the least likely to make any kind of change.

So you’re still together?

@Sally2791 This is kind of what I thought would happen. Any normal person would care if there’s a problem and not have to be forced into counselling, would they. I worry about my child being lied to and gaslit (as I’ve been). Is he trying to turn them against you?

Not given an ultimatum but I can see it happening one day. Placemarking to see the advice! Best of luck OP.

Still living in the same house but had the conversation & I hope to be out by the summer. Not sure if dh realises I am serious but like you I have emotionally checked out.

Like you also am a natural optimist & have hung on for too many years hoping things would get better. It’s good that you see clearly that he is the one that has to be committed to change.

One thing that has helped me lots is writing down over time all the stuff that was troubling me. It’s not exactly an accurate record of the relationship, because I only tended to write when things were bad, but going back to it does help remind me why i am leaving, if I have a wobble.

*wouldn’t they

@Walkingwounded

So you consider yourself separated already? Or are you still sleeping in the same bed? And why are you leaving and not him? I don’t want to uproot my child so soon, though no way I can afford to pay the mortgage alone. Argh. It’s such a

I am keeping a log now, but haven’t written anything from the past down unless it comes up while logging the day’s arguments.

He is trying to force the children to have more contact with his new girlfriend than they want and getting angry and sulky with them when they object. I don't think he is actively trying to turn them against me, it would never work as they realise he is not emotionally "quite all there!" and they are all very close to me. He is just ruining what relationship he had with them. He will be lying to and bullshitting the new woman as well,but she's probably too loved up to see through it yet.
What is it with these men who don't realise or care that marriages are built on trust and communication?
I would do what an earlier poster said -Tell him you are going for counselling and he is welcome to join you if he wants to make the relationship work

*It’s such a shitstorm.

I’m still with DH, but he is very stubborn and does not like change.
When DD’s were toddlers our house was not working for us as a family. He did not see that.
I just told him the girls and I were leaving when I found the right home. He could stay or come too, the choice was his.
I then spent 6 months house hunting.
When I found our current home, he was open to moving as soon as he saw the house. Having a man cave did seal the deal.
Some people bury there head in the sand. They need to be given simple choices and understand the consequences of those choices.
Good luck 💐

Thanks @Sally2791. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through all of this but great you sound like you’re doing well on the other side.

I don’t know what men like this think. It’s mind boggling because I can’t imagine he’s very happy either. Especially because after claiming he never wanted to turn out like his father he must realise he’s turned into just that.

Interesting reading. As though serendipity that this thread should come up this morning.

I separated from my husband three years ago. We’re not yet divorced. I’ve started the process, waiting for Nisi. I’ve got such a strong temptation to contact him today to find some way to begin to find some way to in some way reconcile our differences, however, reading this thread I am reading behaviour that was similar in my relationship and see why I HAD to leave DH, even though I still clearly hold very strong feelings for him. Tis a dilemma or not. Always come back to - “and that’s why I couldn’t live with him.”

Yes I consider us separated. Not in the same bed. DHs house comes with his job, which is why I have to leave.

If you have a toddler, my strong advice is to consider leaving now, before they get older. Mine are now 11 and 13; I hung in too long & the physical moving out & breakup is going to be awful.

You could book some counselling for you. Also see a solicitor and find out your financial etc options. Then you can decide if you are still open to offering him an ultimatum.

Finally, you mentioned his dad...One thing that helps me keep my resolve is seeing the old age that lies ahead....miserable and bad-tempered dh who has no friends and no social life; refusing to communicate with me & angry if I raise any issues; all magnified by ‘old man’ mode iyswim. With that vision ahead, it’s easier to hold my nerve.

@31133004Taff What is Nisi?

I know what you mean. On paper my husband and I are great, and I think about his good points when he’s away. Though I don’t know if that would apply anymore. It only ever takes a few hours after his return for me to cop it anyway and the positivity fades quickly from there. But logging his behaviour now and really thinking about how many truly awful things he’s done to me over the years, knowing this will continue and that he grew up watching his father behave like this is stopping optimistic mrsmiyagi from bending to his usual half-assed attempts to pretend things aren’t as bad as they are.

Wise words @Mrsmiyagi

And @31133004Taff you can absolutely live without your ex! I don’t know your story but if it’s anything like mine...

I left him before we were married. Was over it. He actually did make a big change in his life then and I did agree to go back, but the thing is he never made the deep changes he needed to. That would require him to have some very confronting individual therapy and he’s just not that way inclined. So while he did appear to be amenable to change, his mindset hadn’t changed at all. I should never have been sucked back in. By the time I realised nothing had really changed I was pregnant.

I try not to be too hard on myself because if I hadn’t I would have my beautiful child now, but it would have been exceptionally easy to leave completely then compared to now. Not that I thought that at the time.

@Walkingwounded miserable and bad-tempered dh who has no friends and no social life; refusing to communicate with me & angry if I raise any issues

They really sound so similar. Mine is so bad tempered and negative with no social life, yet claims I’m the dark one with no friends! Amazing what he convinces himself of actually. I think he truly believes it too...

And that is the sad part. when you are gone and living your life, he will be alone.

Start to get your ducks in a row.
See a lawyer for advice.
Get copies of bank accounts, pension funds etc.
Be prepared to go if you need to.

We went to relate for a couple of years. It was draining, awful. One day he heard himself while he was spouting his usual shite and seemingly had a lightbulb moment. He realised what he said, he realised that everybody could see what I saw and proceeded to make extravagant gestures in public to show he is not that bad. I was really unsure of his reaction. It was a facade he put on for show. And yep, the masonry fell off and the truth was there to see, and there was no going back.

OP, I would save my breath and my money, put all my ducks in a row and leave him.

@Weenurse Yep. Considering he’s a bully he’s very dependent on me for his social life, among many, many other things. So when he doesn’t have me I imagine my social life will grow (he won’t make it so difficult to see people) but his won’t. Or more likely he’ll spend his time with less savoury characters.

I was actually going to ask people for advice about what getting ducks in a row entails in another thread later.

In 2016 after 10+ years of marriage I asked him to come to marital counselling. He refused so I went on my own. In 2017 I told him that I could not tolerate his behaviour and we were separating. He then demanded counselling. I said I would attend to discuss separation issues but I continued to divorce. At the first counselling session he told the counsellor that after 6 sessions we would be reconciled and I was furious. In 2018 our divorce was completed, but he assaulted me twice in between when he realised he had lost control of me.
Counselling opened my eyes to the emotional abuse, then I opened up to friends and was educated about the financial abuse I had suffered, and my growing confidence led to physical abuse.
I'm not trying to scare you OP but if you're considering an ultimatum do bear in mind that your growing confidence will feel like a threat. You could be really lucky and your husband will react positively and be interested in personal development and working with you on your relationship, just not motivated enough to organise counselling by himself.
The relationships board has a lot of helpful information.