Help. Have you ever given husband an ultimatum - couples counselling or separate?

[mrsmiyagi19]

My husband and I have been at a communication stalemate for a long time now and I’m to the point where I actually can’t take it anymore. I’m so beaten down by the turmoil and I can see now how it’s affecting my toddler more and more. We have a huge amount of unresolved issues my husband chooses to pretend don’t exist (“You just need to learn to be happy” ... end of story), reacts in anger and dismissal any time I ever express any discontent and I’m fed up with chasing my tail and feeling I’m the only one making any effort to compromise and solve issues. He’s a brick wall.

Last hope is counselling, though he’s refused to do this every time I’ve brought it up over the years, so the damage has just gotten worse and I actually have little hope it could even help at this late stage. Honestly feel life would be so much easier without him. BUT, I feel it’s worth a try, if not just to assure myself I’ve done everything I could on my end.

I’ve never issued an ultimatum in my life but now’s the time. I’d like to know if anyone else has said to their partners that they either attend couples counselling or separate...? If so, why (was it like my situation where one of you had previously refused) and how did it go? Any advice on how to do it? I’m thinking to ask and give him five days or so to mull it over before he gives me a decision. He’s very volatile so I have to make sure I’m feeling strong first because I anticipate an explosion. Need to stick to my guns.

My friend gave this ultimatum to her dh. They have now been in counselling for 9 months. What it has done is prove to her that he is unwilling/ incapable of change. She now knows she has to leave him and take their two dc. I think she strongly suspected the counselling wouldn’t work, but she said she wanted to hand on heart say she had tried. He has used the counselling sessions as another opportunity to criticise and put her down

If he wasn’t willing to go to counseling, to me, I’ve already got my answer.
He doesn’t care I’m unhappy, he isn’t willing to listen and probably isn’t willing to change.
Leave now.

A more positive story - DH has always been willing to work on himself, but still didn't really see what the problem was. I got him to read some of the John Gottman books and the change has been huge. If he isn't willing to do counselling, maybe suggest it? I do think 'marriage' is a skill, and if you don't know how to do it well it's never going to work. It's nothing to do with your willingness or how much you love someone.

@harrietpn As I was reading thread, I felt sure there must be men out there capable of change, and relationships also evidence of change from both parties.

I feel I have grown as a consequence of my separation- enough now to say I love my husband and that is enough for now.

ducks in row Check what you can claim through tax credits. Put in a claim now so that when you’re ready to leave the time lag of red tape is resolved. If I’d realised these were available to me I’d have gone solo much sooner.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do 💐

I gave my exH an ultimatum to go for individual counselling to sort out his anger issues.

TBH it just prolonged the inevitable.

My only regret is not leaving when the dc were small. They were 8 and 10 when I left. It was awful, especially for the eldest.

But things are fine with the dc now and me and exH are actually quite amicable now.

@Originallymeonly Sorry to hear your story. I’m aware things could degenerate into him hitting me. He quit drinking some years ago. It was a positive move. Since I started calmly standing my ground lately he’s mentioned how he wants a drink. He just did it today in fact. It’s designed to make me feel guilty, worry, shut up... all of the above. Today I told him just that. He knows if he drinks I will leave immediately.

@harrietpn Thanks, but tried all that. Occasionally I see he’s been watching videos on medication etc but if he ever tries to educate himself on relationships he’s looking up how to deal with difficult people. He won’t accept he’s the difficult one.

As for tax credits... sorry if I sound lost. I’m in Australia so not sure what that means over here. Do you mean benefits?

@latentphase I thought about doing the same. He has admitted to having an anger issue a few times but usually as a way to manipulate the situation. He never actually goes and sorts it out. I’d love to get to the point where we could be amicable.

I asked mine to try counseling, his reply was "I don't believe in counseling".
So I went to 2 sessions by myself, it did help me see my issues with him clearer.
We still share a house, not bedrooms though.
We've settled into a relationship of sorts, there's no love between us just a companionship.
However, if we'd had DC together I'd have walked away from him the moment he said no.

One thing that helps me keep my resolve is seeing the old age that lies ahead....miserable and bad-tempered dh who has no friends and no social life; refusing to communicate with me & angry if I raise any issues; all magnified by ‘old man’ mode iyswim. With that vision ahead, it’s easier to hold my nerve

^

This.

So true walking wounded

Many years since I left my ex now, for similar/same reasons as pp's have outlined. I recall the unhappiness of being with a man who constantly rained on my parade I couldn't take joy in anything. Was stubborn and argumentative to the point it gave me headaches. He was always right. Harsh angry tone for the smallest of reasons. & envious of me for being creative and social, also secretly envious and dismissive of people we knew.

Not that he had friends. He got to know my friends via me and took pleasure in criticising them behind their back to make me feel bad.

One day I was feeling particularly miserable ended up talking to my brother. My brother said when a man is an impenetrable wall, you are wasting time thinking he'll ever want to 'hear' you. Decide that your happiness matters, and just leave. So I did.

Upsetting at the time of course, and the anger and gaslighting after I left was horrendous. But honestly..I likened it to a radio having been on for years constantly playing a horrid song, and I was forced to listen to it.

Then one day I leaned over and calmly switched the radio off. No - more - noise.

Bliss.

@DeeDeeCherry Ditto, ditto, ditto. All these men sound the same. I can relate to all of them. You have to be neutral around them because if you have a win or are too happy they manage to spoil it. You have a low moment and they manage to exacerbate it. So you have to grey rock yourself all the time to protect yourself. Around the person you’re supposed to be closest to in the whole world. How bloody sad.

Glad you switched that crappy, tone deaf song off.

Don't bother with ultimatums or counselling, he won't change, because he thinks he's in the right, so it's just a waste of time. You have tried, but it's not you that needs to do anything, it's him, and he's not willing.

Leave now, while your child is still a toddler, so it won't upset them so much.

Getting your ducks in a row, just means getting legal advice, getting copies of all the finances etc, look to see if there are any benefits you can claim if you're on a low income, start saving money so that you can afford to move out, etc. Basically, getting ready to leave.

Also, if close family and friends don't know what's going on in your relationship, tell them, but don't listen to advice that says you should keep trying with him. Some people believe that you shouldn't divorce, and that's "just how men are". Try to get emotional support from them.

Only go to counselling on your own, if you feel you need to.

BTW, it's helpful to mention the country you're in, in your first post, otherwise people will be giving you advice that's UK specific, like the mention of Tax Credits, which is a benefit available here.

Much of this is far too close to home. How can there be so many men like this?!

How are you feeling mrsmigayi? Have the responses here helped you decide what to do?

@Walkingwounded Feeling pretty dreadful. Had more rows last night and he stayed up talking to his family, which is never a good thing as they’re very dysfunctional people and only ever have bad things to say about us “outsiders”. He’ll never be held accountable.

I’m very grateful for the responses, though pretty sad so many of us have the same story. I’m sure it’s the same for all of us that we had convinced ourselves things weren’t too bad for ages before we finally snapped.

I wonder how they have so much power to make us believe we’re the ones with the problem. That we’re the ones who need to change. I guess in any of the examples you just imagine how your response would be different to your husband’s and that should be enough of an indicator their behaviour is unacceptable. I just read the thread about the woman with heart trouble whose husband has racked up a huge debt and wants to use her compensation to pay it off. WTF is wrong with these beasts.

Don’t you think you have your answer when you say he wouldn’t go to counselling because he’s not that way inclined? So basically he knows you’re unhappy and he doesn’t care at all. And he’s definitely not going to do anything about it. He doesn’t prioritise you at all. I’d get my ducks in a row then issue an ultimatum. You are still young and sound like a really lovely person. Go out and enjoy your life without him.

So many of these stories resonate with me.

For years i asked, cried and begged my DH to attend marriage counselling, finally 2 years ago, I basically gave him the ultimatum and he said "well that's a hard decision, I'll have to think about it" and that was my answer I guess.

We stayed together and did go to a few marriage counselling sessions, things improved a little but we have so many issues we've decided to separate (even for a trial at first) just waiting for him to move out any day now.

I think it is the grinding down over years that leaves us believing that we are the ones with the problem. Also in my DHs case he can be great - very principled and decent - which were the qualities that made me fall in love with him in the first place. So often the picture is not very clear, and you feel more confused than determined.

Counselling for you would be a good first step. Also by trying to discuss it with him ( and having arguments) do you feel you are achieving anything? The temptation to want to make them hear you, see your point of view is massive. - but in my DHs case at least, that is not realistic and just stirs things up more.

OP, the power they have over us that you are asking about stems from our need to be loved.
It is as simple as that. We so desperately want to be loved we’ll do whatever it takes to please.

I’m in my 40s and I’ve only just realised this. But think about it: we stay in shitty dysfunctional relationships not because we’re gluttons for punishment, not because we don’t think we’re worth more, not because we’re not strong and capable to look after ourselves ourselves.
We stay because we want to be loved.

I haven’t got it all figured out, but I’m pretty sure the next step is giving ourselves the love we need. Be it giving up sugar, taking up exercise, making or losing friendships, changing jobs, getting a better qualification, listening to our bodies and minds etc. Whatever we need to feel loved.

It’s nice to have a partner that loves and supports us. But a partner comes later in life, the ones that should have given us love are our parents. And I have a sneaky suspicion that we still act like toddlers to see if they’ll (our partners) still love us. And I also suspect we bestow upon them the task of giving us what we lack without realising ourselves what we need.
Hope you’re alright

It’s an interesting theory 8FencingWire and one that will resonate with some I imagine. In my case though it is nothing to do with wanting to feel loved; I stay because as things currently stand I believe my children would more detrimentally affected by staying than going. And because, selfishly, if I did divorce he would want 50 percent custody and I can’t imagine only seeing my kids 50 percent of the time. Of course this is something that will require constant re-evaluation and there may well be a time the balance shifts and it’s better for everyone to split.

OP - sorry you’ve had such a bad night. Totally agree with what you say about your response to events being so different to your husband’s and that being a sign of how wrong things are.

@Warmhandscoldheart
However, if we'd had DC together I'd have walked away from him the moment he said no.
So what's keeping you together now if not children? How does your household currently work for you both?

We've settled into a relationship of sorts, there's no love between us just a companionship.
Is that enough for you?

How are you doing mrsmiyagi?

Going okay @Walkingwounded.

He’s picked up something’s changed with me so behaving relatively well and has even (allegedly) made a couple of changes to things I’ve asked for for a long time, but it doesn’t even scratch the surface really and I know it’s short lived anyway.

Unfortunately a few unexpected things have come up so I’m still in a holding pattern, but I have spoken with a lawyer and got some basic information which has helped. Just feeling so sick to my stomach about all this. The anxiety in my throat is making it hard to breathe.

It’s a shame I get more compassion from strangers online than I ever got from my husband but I do appreciate it very much. So thanks, all. Really.

Gosh, your opening post was like looking in a mirror, op. I too have one toddler and am midway through my ultimatum I suppose. At least, I gave an ultimatum some time ago that the problem drinking needed to stop, it did good about 6 weeks and then week 7 he had a drink every day. Not a lot, but every day. I left at the end of the week, we talked a few times, and came to an uneasy agreement that we go to proper couple's therapy or separate. He said he'd sort it by the end of the week. I don't think he's done a damn thing about it and am working myself up to tell him to leave.

Like you, I think it might be too late anyway. We have actually been for counselling twice before each time after arm twisting from me and a total meltdown. The surface issues about communication have improved - they're not perfect, but I can see real change in him when I look back. That's where my only spark of hope comes from. But I don't trust him and I don't know if I ever can - the wounds, the years of rejection are so deep and every time he lets me down again and breaks promises i get a title further away.

So sorry to hear about your anxiety and turmoil, I know just what you mean x