Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

YANBU OP. The vendor doesn’t have to answer your questions or let you back for another visit. But it would be sensible for her to do so if she wants to sell her house.

Honestly, so many red flags here. The builder husband and them not answering the question about the RSJ is really worrying. Just pull out, find somewhere else.

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to this thread. An estate agent has come on and said it's quite common to access properties where surveys throw up issues! I would certainly not buy if they wouldn't let an electrician in or someone like that.

My recent buyers were happy with additional viewings, but we also kept them in the loop the whole way along to reassure them we were fully committed.

I would pull out anyway. I wouldn't buy a house the bank thought was overvalued and with major structural work. Just pull out.

Sounds like my sister tbh. I have to book 3 months in advance because her kids do activities every night. Mind you if you are buying/selling you really HAVE to be available. It all sounds incredibly irritating. I'd be tempted to withdraw my offer.

Oh, and from experience I would say the opposite of lingeredbat. If the survey pointed to issues then these will be built into the value that they came out with and which you offered. You will need to build in paying for the work at some point, but that doesn't reduce the value of the house now. Your reduced offer already reflects that.

Obviously I don't know your exact house and survey, but I have had a massive chimney rebuilt. I have had half of the back wall of a house removed. I have had a house underpinned. Honestly, you would be amazed by what builders can do without batting an eyelid.

sootspritez the structural changes they have made would have required planning permission or Building Regs so ask to see copies of all paperwork.

I've bought and sold many times over the years and once I'd accepted/agreed an offer I didn't really want the buyer's builders etc traipsing through what was still my home. You wait until it's your home, then you can have hoards of people in poking around and measuring up.

@VelvetSpoon

I know this comment was on the first page but it’s really riled me. You do realise that the second you complete they buyers OWN the house? Of course they wanted to get in to THEIR house. You were trespassing. You should have been out by completion. It really worries me that so many people don’t understand this. There was a thread on here not so long back about nightmare vendors who were still in the house after completion. You might have been one of them!

They literally had np respect whatsoever for the fact I was busy and clearly thought as buyers their wants got priority. On moving day they were banging on my door within literally minutes of completion insisting I let them in.

I think this is a really useful thread. All the contradicting views and points from both sides have been talked about and I think that everything points to pulling out. Even if OP is unreasonable, it doesn't bode well because the owner is put out and the OP won't get the info she wants to be happy to go ahead. If the OP is reasonable, it's still a no go as she is being blocked.

I think you have had a great thread OP as people have been really thorough. Taking on board all the views, there is no way in hell I would buy that house now. It's just too much of a risk.

@cheby I thought the same!!

@IceRebel they ignored it between receiving the survey and putting an offer in. Then suddenly they want to revisit it after their offer has been accepted. If the survey was that bad the bank probably wouldn't give them a mortgage for it, unless they were sure that the OP had the cash to address immediate structural problems. Even then, the bank might refuse to lend. This is why houses end up at auctions where only cash buyers can take a risk. We have friends who took a punt on a grade 1 listed Georgian house without plumbing - completely solid build, but no plumbing meant no mortgage, which massively restricted the people who could buy it. The house is gorgeous now, but they needed to live elsewhere for six months after buying it while they got contractors in to make it habitable.

When we moved into our house, we wanted a chimney breast taking down. The builder refused to do it - he said if it wasn't done right it could lead to serious problems and ultimately the house falling down (it's a sturdy Victorian terrace). I've bought several times and never been advised by a solicitor to pull out. My sister was and ignored it - years of misery and she lost about 25% of the value when she resold.

Set a tight deadline for all your queries to be answered to your solicitor's satisfaction and for you to get access with a builder to assure structural integrity (or pay for the full survey) and walk if not met. Or better, walk now.

"I need measurements for and I also want a builder to come out as there's a specific issue regarding a chimney breast that has been removed that may need work doing and I don't want to move forward with the sale until I can check on how much this is going to cost with a professional. A survey is just a cursory examination to flag up any issues surely, which can then be checked by an experienced contractor? "

You already had money off, I actually think it sounds like you are mucking around a bit here too. Getting a builder round when u already had money knocked off.
You shouldnt have bothered offering again if you then planned to get a builder around to check things out with view to not moving forward with the sale.

@Foxmuffin you are right no one is compelled to buy. I have never allowed someone 6 viewings again and have sold multiple times. The OP is coming across as a time waster. The vendor isn’t stopping them viewing she has given strict times that suit her and her family.

@Travis1 glad it’s not just me! I know moving is a PITA, but you either get professional movers, start moving stuff before moving day, use a storage company so you can get out early or you get up at 4am to make a start. You can’t just stay in the house past completion.

@Cheby I thought the same as you!

How dare the buyers want to get into their new house eh? How unreasonable!

There are no confirmed structural issues. The surveyor has simply pointed out that as the bottom half of the chimney has been removed, the buyer should get confirmation that a RSJ is in place as, has been mentioned many times, they can not been seen and confirmed by a standard survey. It’s a completely standard thing to flag and for the solicitor to deal with. It does not mean there are likely structural issues AT ALL. Every house hold which has had similar structural works at some point will have the same advice returned on a home buyers survey.

I think I'd walk away too, OP.
She may well think you're looking round again, with a view to drop the price again if you find something more expensive needing doing, which, tbh, you probably would (and so would i).

The price i offered would be offered in good faith that the house is pretty much as it appears to be. If I subsequently found out that the whole thing might collapse due to a botch job on the chimney, then i would want the price dropped to allow for the corrective work to be done.
If she wont facilitate you going in with a builder, then, as you say, you're not going to gamble with however much you've offered.

In an ideal world, you would have gone in with the builder and used his estimate to negotiate the original drop in price, but you didn't and i certainly wouldn't be rushing to buy a house without knowing how much it will cost to make it safe.

Not totally fucking batshit at all.
Our buyers came to see our house 4 times before offering. Then offered. Had 4 surveys. Tried to make us pay for the surveys. Kept asking for money off after the surveys. Asked to come again 'to measure up', then asked for money off again. Then pulled out on day of exchange and forced us to drop the price to keep our onward sale. They were batshit and mean.
You agree a price, you pay that price, you move in and do any work that you see fit. Unless the survey shows something insurmountable in which case you pull out or agree a new price.
It is not yet your house OP. If they let you in at all it is a gesture of goodwill, not a right.

Mumsnet is a weird place, people on here are particularly sensitive to house prices going down & that is the situation we're in now. Started in London & the south & will ripple out in time.

This wins weirdest comment of the thread for me. First of all, who does want their house price to go down? Why is it just Mumsnetters that care about losing money?! But more importantly, what on earth has that got to do with the thread? And finally, yes London prices have gone down a little but the rest of the country is doing absolutely fine and there's zero indication or prediction from experts that anything will 'ripple out'. London and the rest of the country are very, very different places.

I'd run to be honest. Something not right here. Issue an ultimatum - a second viewing this week at her convenience or sale falls through.

If you're not sure you don't make the offer

Some people are being unkind. There is little point in berating the OP because she didn't get a 2nd viewing before offering. That's done. What she needs now is good advice, like that of her solicitor.

I'm going to suggest something slightly different. Make the request as others have said of your solicitor to get copies of all paperwork. Leave your offer on the table but other than asking for paperwork, ask your solicitor not to do anything further. If no paperwork is forthcoming, that £500 will have been a wise investment in terms of saving you from an expensive potential mistake when you pull out. If it is ok, you have simply paused the transaction, rather than aborting it, so should be able to pick it up again.

In the meantime, make a concerted effort to view other properties that same EA has on their books. They know you are serious. They have even apologised for their client (the vendor). They will be well aware that every survey on this property will throw up the same issues. Vendor might think she's being clever, but she may be liable for the EA's fees even if you don't purchase as they have introduced a proceed-able buyer.

@Faithless12

Possibly. The last house i sold (which was a pretty valuable property for the area) the buyer came multiple times and asked what seemed liked the most trivial questions. She spent two hours measuring EVERY window in what was a substantial house so she could figure out what curtains she needed. She did go on to buy it but I was at my Whitt’s end. You never know!

The vendor is very unlikely to let you back into the property - they only stand to lose from this really, so you need to chalk that one down to your inexperience - you should have had the second viewing before agreeing to proceed at 137.

We were in a very similar circumstance - offered on an house over 150 years old and the survey obviously threw up questions that could potentially cause lots of work to be needed. The sellers refused further access to the house, and I don't blame them in many ways, as further investigations were highly likely in their eyes to lead to us pulling out or trying to negotiate a lower price.

We bought it anyway, after much agonising, because we loved the house and it was unique. I don't get the feeling you feel the same about yours, so it might be best to look elsewhere. Just get your second viewing done promptly next time! Good luck

"Just get the sale complete as soon as possible and sort out the contractor once the house is yours"

don't do this

I also think it’s a very weird comment @wannabeyorkshirelass. London price have dropped by a very small amount. If £40k is really the only thing stopping you being able to afford a £950k flat, good for you. It’s not really noticeable to anyone else