Or is the person we're buying a house from totally fucking batshit?

[sootspritez]

I'm gonna start by saying I know I'm not being unreasonable, however I am inexperienced, so looking for some guidance on where you think things have gone wrong and what I can now do to placate this nutjob vendor. NC as outing. Will try not to drip feed.

Dh and I are first time buyers. Visited a house. Loved it. Offered full asking price. All fine up until this point.

3 weeks after offer is accepted the survey happens. This is when things start going south.

Let's say that house was on market for 150k. Survey came back and said the house was only work 137k due to needing new Windows, chimney work, roof tiles, etc and the bank believe this was all the house was worth.

Survey cost in excess of £500 so fairly decent survey for a reasonable priced house. Put it to the agents that unfortunately this is now all we can offer as the mortgage lenders I.e. bank believe it's all the house is worth due to work needing doing. Fully prepared to be told tough and that they're holding out for the full price as I know they rejected a previous offer for being slightly below asking.

Vendor agrees to sell for 137k immediately. Phew... Or so we thought.

From this point on the following has happened via estate agents -

• vendor has cancelled 3 second viewings because they were inconvenient though she initially agreed

• she has denied entrance to the property for a contractor to come out with us to estimate how much work needs doing

• pointlessly got in touch to specify that now that they had gone below asking that all appliances wouldn't be included (I didn't want her appliances)

• asked EA to ask us TWICE if we would be willing to offer them more money despite accepting price given by mortgage lender

• when we have asked for another viewing she has proposed just insane times '20 mins at 6pm on the last Sunday of the month' '30 mins at 10.30am exactly 4 weeks on friday' despite us offering to be entirely flexible where possible (I.e. evenings and weekends at her convenience but would be willing to book an hour off work if she can guarantee the time). She says she cannot guarantee time as she works fill time and has 2 boys who play football until 8pm every single night and all day every weekend and they are her priority.

She has told the EA that she thinks we are inflexible and both the EA and the branch manager have apologised to us for her behaviour but obviously won't challenge her on it.

Am I right in thinking she's pissed off about lowering the price and just doesn't wanna sell her house?!

They should be communicating with the seller’s solicitors and getting the answers for you. Not just sitting back and telling you not to proceed! 😂😂

If a solicitor tells you not to proceed, LISTEN to them it's their bread and butter. If they aren't happy for you to proceed then it's for a very good reason.

They literally had np respect whatsoever for the fact I was busy and clearly thought as buyers their wants got priority. On moving day they were banging on my door within literally minutes of completion insisting I let them in.

To be fair, when money changes hands it's no longer your house. You're expected to be ready and waiting to go.

We were always strongly advised by our solicitor to request another viewing as close to exchange as possible as there is often a long wait between the last time you saw it and exchange and the roof could have caved in or anything! This has never been an issue, we also didn't think anything of allowing a second viewing after offer for our recent buyers.

You are spending the most money you will probably ever spend on anything. A second look for 15-20 minutes isn't that big an inconvenience.

Honestly OP, she is behaving like this now and you have a lot of legal work still to go, walk away unless this is a one of a kind dream house.

The homebuyers survey sounds standard- they comment on the superficial things they can see and cover their arses by saying they don’t know about the rest. To get a reduction of £13k or whatever on roof tiles and windows which were clearly visible to you when you looked round is pretty good and I’d be pissed off as the vendor that you used that to lower your offer. Our buyers did that a week before completion on a standard comment about possible asbestos as it was a Victorian home. We had no choice but to pay for an asbestos survey which was of course fine.
She’ll be worried you want to knock even more off and all she wants to do is get the house sold. Once the conveyancing starts the solicitors will ask for building regs for buildings work.
On the other hand I do think it’s crazy how you spend more so little time looking at a house before buying but it’s the way it is. Just stay calm and look round at the time she’s offered.

No ice, I think she should be getting her solicitors to do their job and find out the info for her. Not throwing a tantrum because the vendor won’t let her back for a viewing whenever she wants.

And the seller has offered another viewing out of goodwill, but apparently that time/date wasn’t suitable to the OP

@Catchingbentcoppers yes completely agree, can you go back and request a more in depth survey?

Catchingbentcoppers
legally the buyer can walk away at any point before contract are exchanged.

They are not bound to buy a possible wreck just because they unfortunately didn't pull out at time that was more convenient.

Ah OP, you've not handled this well but FTB are known to be nervy!

The vendor does want to sell her house, she's offered on another one and wants to move. Bear that in mind.

Yes, she is likely to be a bit miffed that she's had to drop the price so much. Yes, it does look as if you are looking for a reduction by asking to bring a builder round - you may not be, just assessing the work to be done when you move in, but that is what it looks like to a vendor.

You had the survey, you knew the issues - if you wanted to check them out then that should have been before the revised offer as so many have said, too late to go back on that now though.

Personally, I do let people have extra viewings and I've let someone bring a builder round who was thinking about an extension to the property. There is no way I'd let people drill holes in walls though!

I also think you are going to pull out - if you do, you'll handle the next purchase better (and if at all possible, try to avoid offering after only one viewing!) and if you are, do it soon - don't get any further down the line. Good luck with your purchase OP.

It's totally normal to have a viewing after having offer accepted - I've done it several times with no problems whatsoever.

I think there are more problems with this house than you think and they are trying to hide it from you. Walk away.

Some more really bad info re certificates too. The so called indemnities sold are only against the legal fees if you are prosecuted by the council for owning a property that has had work done without planning permission. They do not cover the cost of rectifying that work.

Even surveys are pretty limited in what they cover. Basically they only report on what's visible to anyone who's looking carefully, not anything that can be hidden by plaster or wallpaper.

If the seller won't allow access after accepting an offer, yes she's within her rights but I too would think on balance there's something being hidden in this case.

Op how much was your survey? Pls

The figure is right there in the OP, Abbazed.

I personally would start looking for another house. If you can't have a 2nd viewing then they have something to hide.

I think the point is, you're entitled to as many viewings as you wish, but this should happen before you make the offer, not afterwards!

You should have done a survey, got any builders in to quote etc prior to renegotiating your offer. You've made a tactical error here.

If a house is in high demand and you didn't have time for this, then yes, you will have to take a risk and by it 'as seen'

If this doesn't suit you, then you need to find a less 'in demand' house.

I'm assuming you are relatively inexperienced in the art of buying houses? There is always an element of risk as a buyer, it sound like this house and vendor sits outside your acceptable risk level. This means you should walk away and find one more suited to your requirements.

At the end of the day, it's her house and she can be as difficult as she likes.

@Karwomannghia I don't think the OP got the reduction due to her wanting to replace the windows and roof but because the mortgage valuation said the house wasn't worth what OP had offered. The mortgage valuation and homebuyers survey are two different things although are often carried out at the same time by the same person as lenders do deals on them.

I've heard of down valuing happening a few times, a vendor inflates the selling price, an inexperienced buyer accepts and then the mortgage company says woah hang on! The vendor has to accept the red book valuation or go and find a cash buyer or a buyer who is willing to stump up a bigger deposit to cover the shortfall in what the bank would lend. But personally I wouldn't pay more for a house than a professional valuation said it was worth...

When we sold our previous house to FTB they offered 5k below the asking, we accepted. They had a survey done which highlighted some very minor works, around 2k so they then asked for an extra 2k off.

We declined, FTB still wanted to go through with original agreed price. Few weeks down the line they asked to come and measure for a new sofa, we agreed, whilst they were in the house they basically said that if we didn't accept the extra 2k lower offer they would pull out.

We pulled out of selling to them in the end, just couldn't trust them. Sold again within a few weeks to a lovely couple who paid asking price.

From a selling point of view I'd expect as a buyer you'd have all your ducks in a row before a firm offer.

My point is don't lose the house you really want and love for the sake of a few thousand.

If you're buying a house it's not unreasonable to ask to view it again to check certain details in preparation for your move. We've done it with both our house purchases and have had buyers ask it of us. I don't understand the big deal people are making of this, personally.

You're supposed to do all the viewings that help you decide whether you want to buy the house and how much to offer before you make the offer.
You've got it wrong here and probably annoyed the seller so she doesn't want to be helpful.
Viewings after the offer are for helping to decide on what furniture to buy or to help inform building work you want to begin very early on.

I'm not surprised she's being unhelpful. But I know it's nerve wracking buying a house for the first time.

You have actually been offered another viewing, but have declared those times as crazy because I’m assuming they don’t suit you/your team of builders. Yet in the next breath you claim to be really flexible?

This.

So many assumptions made in this thread, and blatant ignorance of what the OP has said, while telling the OP to walk away.

The vendor has agreed to a 2nd viewing, although she doesn’t have to. The OP said the vendor didn’t volunteer information about the chimney, which people have assumed means she’s lying and hiding something and trying to rip a buyer off. Maybe she wasn’t present for the survey? Maybe she hasn’t seen the survey? (I know I’ve been asked to provide a copy of my survey to the EA when renegotiating price, but it was MY survey that I paid for and I didn’t have to provide one, the vendor won’t have been automatically sent a copy - she didn’t pay for the survey). The fact the surveyor isn’t allowed to do invasive structural investigations (quite rightly at this point) and cant guarantee that a joist was put in, now apparently means there’s definitely not one and the house is on the point of collapse! A) surveyors have to mention every detail and every question mark as they have to protect themselves from future legal claims and b) the proper way to actually find out this information is through solicitors requesting building reg documents.

By all means, walk away. You won’t be the first buyer to get cold feet at the realisation of the enormity of the commitment buying a house is. But you’ve said you love this house. In which case, I think it would be a mistake to not try to repair relations/communications with the vendor. The chimney could very likely turn out to be compliant, the windows and roof tiles could be sorted for well under £13k and then you’ve got yourself the home you love for less than you’d anticipated.

OP, you've discovered the pitfalls and complications of buying a house; there doesn't seem to be a right way to do it. Walk away from this house - there will be others. You said in your first post that you are inexperienced at house buying.... now you're not.

It's ok to want to check things out after a poor survey. What people are saying is that you should have got builders etc in then. Then waited to see the results of what they said before offering again. This might have been more or less than the £137k.
What people are saying is that you've missed that stage out, already offered the new price and now it's unreasonable to see whether you want to drop £137k on a house. As far as the vendor is concerned you've agreed to take the house as it isc faults and all.

Having said that it sounds dodgy.

Second viewings are normal. We were refused one without the presence of the vendor and then found out something major wasn't functioning.

@feddupp with the greatest of respect I think that’s a fairly obvious point.

@soulrider OP stated £137k was just a “for instance” figure, not that the house is costing £137k

Do you want the house or not? If I was seller I would feel like you were pissing about and I would pull out. You put in an offer, then reduce it, then want to come and check again??? You should have done all that before you put in your second reduced offer.

Offer
Survey
Keep to price because reflected in earlier reduction
Take DC before exchange when back from uni
Possibly arrange to measure up (our removals did that because of piano)
Let solicitors do rest.
Retain cordiality
I am in touch still with the owners of every property I have bought bar one who removed the lightbulbs and lied re lease charges

The vendor doesn't sound batshit, just annoyed at selling for less. That's understandable given she will most likely be emotionally attached to her house. So yes, yabu.

Also lol at unusual to offer after one viewing. I live in London. Before the brexit downturn people only got one viewing maximum as properties sold so quickly. We even had several 'blind' offers when we sold our flat (people were happy to make full asking price offers based on floor plan and pictures).

I bet the vendor is just worried you will ask for further discounts.