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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you take this neighbour to Court? *[Warning from MNHQ: thread describes dog attack, including graphic image]

121 replies

mydogisthebest · 26/04/2019 22:03

Me and DH moved house at the beginning of last year. Next door neighbour and his wife and children had moved in about 3 weeks before us.

He was very friendly from day 1 but was always wanting to borrow something - lawnmower, hedge cutter, hose pipe, screwdrivers, drill - loads of things. He also borrowed money twice - one time £50 and the other time £100 (he came to the back door at 10.30pm for the first loan and 7am for the second which annoyed me).

Anyway about 4 months after moving his dog got into our garden through a gap in the hedge. It's a thick hedge and there was a gap big enough for him to get into his side and then wriggle his way through to us. We have 2 dogs but they were indoors at the time. He had already told us his dog did not like other dogs so I called out to him and he came into our garden and got his dog. I showed him where the dog had got through and he said he would put something there so he didn't get through again.

About a month later our dogs were in the garden but up by the house. We have a fence round the patio with a gate so that if it is muddy we can keep them off the grass. Next door's dog came through (in the same place as before) and started barking and growling at our dogs. One of our dogs started barking back at him. As soon as he did so next door's dog flew at him and grabbed his face. Our dog was screaming and the other dog was just literally ripping at his face.

The neighbour came in and had to keep punching his dog in the head to get him off our dog. Our poor dog's face was ripped open one side and he was bleeding badly. The neighbour was so apologetic and kept saying he would pay for the vet and please would we not report his dog or tell anyone about it. He said he had not done anything to the hedge as he forgot!

Our dog needed over 100 stitches in his face from his mouth up to his ear. The vet bill was £500.

We were meant to be going to London for a long weekend 2 days after this happened but could not go as we could not put our dog with a sitter when he had to have painkillers and antibiotics every couple of hours. Also he can get a cone off within seconds so had to be watched 24/7.

We had paid out for an Airbnb, theatre tickets and tickets for the anniversary games at the Olympic Stadium - about £400 in total.

We told the neighbour we had lost the money but never expected him to pay it only the vet bill plus the £100 he still owed (this was over a month after he borrowed it). He kept saying he had no money and would have to pay weekly but just didn't. He paid £25 about a month after and then nothing. We didn't want to hassle too much - he has 2 young children and had just found out his wife was pregnant again (not planned) and they obviously don't have much money.

He then started getting stroppy saying we should have sorted the hedge so he was only going to pay half. He said he would pay £250 In October and then the remainder in November (the attack was in July). He paid the £250 but then nothing.

I must admit we didn't chase him partly because we felt sorry for them and also we didn't really want the unpleasantness when it was the next door neighbour. The thing that annoyed us the most was that he just didn't say anything else about it. If he had said they just could not afford it we would not have been so annoyed.

So we haven't spoken to them since October. We put a fence along our side of the hedge (over 100 foot long so cost a fair bit). Their dog still lunges at the hedge every time one of our dogs is in our garden snarling and barking which bothers me.

The last couple of weeks the guy has been a pain. He keeps moaning about us parking opposite his garden gates. He doesn't park in his garden and, even if he did, it is an ordinary width road and we park partly on the pavement so he can easily get in and out. If we don't park there other neighbours do.

Wednesday he started shouting about our car and said we were not to park there. There are no yellow lines and there is room for his 2 cars to park too so we couldn't see what his problem was.

We have had 2 large metal gates stored in his garden from about last June. He had more room for them than us and, at the time, was happy to store them.

To be honest we had forgotten about them. Anyway on Wednesday he said he wanted the gates moved the next day or he would get the scrap man to collect them. DH said he would move them but could not do so before the weekend. They are really heavy and need at least 2 people to move them and there was no one to help until the weekend. DH warned him that if he got rid of them we would take it further and also take him to Court to get the money back for the rest of the money owed to us

This afternoon a scrap guy came round and took the gates away on a truck. It looked like a tow truck with a hoist and that is how he lifted them.

I haven't told DH because I know he will be furious. Also I guess the neighbour got money for them and they were over 6ft high and very large and heavy so possibly a good amount.

I am so angry when I think how we helped him so many times plus we didn't report his dog or tell anyone when we could have told all the other neighbours.

I know when I tell DH he will want to take him to Court for the vet fees and, quite possibly the money we lost on our cancelled trip.

I do realise that we should not have left the gates in his garden for so long and he was entitled to want rid of them but to give us 1 day to move them and to probably make money from them when he owes us I think is disgusting.

Would you take him to Court and, if so, would you also claim the money lost on the cancelled trip?

OP posts:
purpleme12 · 26/04/2019 22:57

I think you're entitled to get your money for vet fees

But to be honest if you've left the gates there that long I don't really blame him for removing them himself. I would think you're not bothered about them. But then I wouldn't have bothered with them after the dog thing!

crazymare20 · 26/04/2019 23:00

Can you not contact the scrap man and explain the gates we’re not his to sell and can he return them? Or contact the police?

tenredthings · 26/04/2019 23:00

Court is slow and expensive and it could turn relations really nasty with your neighbours. I know because we have a CF neighbour who's taken our other neighbour to court and the stress and animosity just grows and grows, they've ended up living in a war zone and it just doesn't seem worth it. I'd just totally ignore them from now on and try to keep them out of your reality as much as possible.

HBStowe · 26/04/2019 23:00

You would be very unlikely to get your London trip costs as it wouldn’t be seen as a forseeable loss but I would definitely press for the vet and the gates. What an asshole!

mydogisthebest · 26/04/2019 23:01

Will the police take any action now on the dog? I do think now that we were silly not to report it and I wish we had. We thought we were being nice and then the neighbour just takes the piss.

We could not have moved the gates together even if it is only from next door. I am 65 and DH 62. I have some health problems and get lots of pain in my hands and can't grip properly. DH had a stroke a few years ago and can no longer lift anything heavy. Another neighbour was going to help DH move them tomorrow.

OP posts:
purpleme12 · 26/04/2019 23:01

Really? If someone had put something in my garden and hadn't bothered about them for a long time I'm sorry but I would think they're not bothered about them (regardless of other issues)

MrsKrabbapple · 26/04/2019 23:05

You are entitled to a free consultation with any solicitors in the country, go straight to them and pick a good one. It's free, the only thing it will cost you is your time. This dramatic statement is a load of cobblers.

shrumps · 26/04/2019 23:06

Is stopped taking it seriously at he asked to borrow various amounts of money. What kind of neighbour does this??!

ScrewyMcScrewup · 26/04/2019 23:08

I doubt a judge will be sympathetic about the vet claim as you left it a year and would appear to now be claiming for revenge.

It also sounds like you won't get anywhere with the gates because you have no evidence of what the neighbour did. It would just be your word against theirs.

Will the police take any action now on the dog? I do think now that we were silly not to report it and I wish we had. We thought we were being nice and then the neighbour just takes the piss

Don't have a dog killed because your neighbour has pissed you off. Hmm

NoCauseRebel · 26/04/2019 23:08

The gates were on his property. Therefore he was within his rights to get rid of them.

All this happened about a year ago and has only blown up because he got rid of the gates which you refused to move.

Added to which you have a history of lending him money on a regular basis. I just can’t get my head around the neighbour knocking the door at 10:00 at night and asking to borrow 100 quid and you saying ok then and handing it over. Seriously have you no boundaries?

You need to learn from this and move on. If you go to the police/the courts now it’s going to look as if you’ve done this because you bear a grudge.

Let it go and move on with your lives. And fgs stop lending money to strangers in the middle of the night.

purpleme12 · 26/04/2019 23:10

That is kind of what I thought too

fullprice · 26/04/2019 23:10

He sounds horrible. The kind of person who takes your kindness for weakness

Motherbrownskneesup · 26/04/2019 23:12

I'd just totally ignore them from now on and try to keep them out of your reality as much as possible.

Very sound advice. People have destroyed their lives going through the courts. Even though you are 'in the right' it doesn't mean you will be compensated and you already suspect that he wouldn't pay up even if ordered to. Let it go

mydogisthebest · 26/04/2019 23:15

We lent him money twice so not really on a regular basis. He wasn't a stranger. He was a neighbour that seemed friendly and we had chatted to quite a lot.

Obviously we are too kind hearted but we know what it's like to struggle because of lack of money and felt sorry for him. If we had not lent him money he could not have got to work and would likely have lost his job. He paid the first loan back quickly so there was no reason to think he wouldn't pay the second.

I get about the gates being on his property but to only give 1 day's notice is pretty pathetic.

I think maybe going to Court isn't the way to go. It will cause more bad feeling, there is no guarantee we will win and, even if we do, I very much doubt he would pay up.

I am going to get on to his landlord/letting agent though and if that seems nasty well so be it

OP posts:
Daffodil2018 · 26/04/2019 23:16

He sold your gates because he wanted the money. That’s why he only gave you a day’s notice. I would absolutely be reporting him. And looking to move house!

SavingSpaces2019 · 26/04/2019 23:18

if it were me i'd feel like i have reasonable case to take to court.
You had a verbal agreement for him to pay you back in installments as you were happy to be reasonable about it.
You've done all you would have been reasonably expected to do by a mediator.

He broke the verbal contract when his next installment was due.
His escalating aggressive behaviour has made it impossible for a reasonable resolution of the remainder of that verbal contract.

However.....i would weigh up the cost of taking him to small claims court V the likelihood of actually seeing a penny from him if he's found liable.
It's already cost you circa £1k in vets bill and gates, how much more will you lose if you never see the money from him?
You would need to get a bailiff to forcibly remove goods from his house to sell if he chooses to ignore the court ruling.
No matter how right you are - i fear you'll just get labelled as the 'nasty' ones who did this to a 'pregnant' woman, because you can bet that is what they will play on to deflect from his behaviour.
Plus you'll then have to live next door to him with even worse relations between you.

I think i'd let the money go re the vet's bill and lost holiday.
The gates - he can argue you gave them to him (it has been a year?).
Going forward, i'd report ALL of this to the police incl the dog incident.
That way he can be found guilty of being a dickhead and it reflects back on them.
Hopefully the police can still take the dog off him - esp seeing as there will be a baby in the house soon.....

Leyani · 26/04/2019 23:20

Another thing to consider regarding going to court is if you own your house and are likely to sell in the next few years. Neighbourhood disputes have to be declared if I remember right and are very off-putting to buyers.

Nomorepies · 26/04/2019 23:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request.

Kaddm · 26/04/2019 23:25

Right. Clearly you’ve tried and the man is pretty unreasonable. But, he is unreasonable and you have to deal with things the best you can.

Taking him to court will be a ridiculous pita and waste of your life. Put the entire fence/boundary/whatever up that is needed to keep your dog safe. Park such that it doesn’t annoy or inconvenience him. Then steer totally clear of him.

Cherrysoup · 26/04/2019 23:26

What if it attacks a person?

And what if it doesn't and loves people, just hates dogs? I see this kind of statement all the time and someone said it to me when my dog objected to his untrained mutt leaping at mine. Ridiculous.

The gates were on his property. Therefore he was within his rights to get rid of them.

Wrong, particularly as they said they'd move them. You don't have the right to dispose of other people's property, even if they take ages to move it. At the max, the neighbour could have moved them onto the OP's property.

Give it one last go to get money back, including for the gates. After that, get a Small Claims issued. You were silly to lend him money.

Sobeyondthehills · 26/04/2019 23:38

We didn't report the dog attack because we didn't want to be responsible for the dog being put to sleep. It seems to be fine with the children.

My dog is fantastic with my DS and SDS but I wouldn't trust him with any stranger be it adult or child. I don't think he would do anything but its not worth the risk and it could be the same for that dog. He might not do anything to the children s/he grew up with but any other child is at risk

Shamoo · 26/04/2019 23:44

Lots of people on here giving you advice with no knowledge of the legal position.

With the gates, if he has agreed to store them on his land, he has taken on a duty of care to you for them and can only have them removed and destroyed following a process - which includes giving you reasonable time to remove them (basic law of bailee/bailor).

The fact the dog attack was last year is legally irrelevant - 6 years to make the claim.

Both issues would come down to what evidence you have. On the dog attack it sounds like you have plenty, on the gates possibly less so.

julensaor · 26/04/2019 23:55

I get it is upsetting OP and to be honest it is a lesson learned, you can be kind but, jesus never loan money to people you barely know. The only thing is, when his dog got through the hedge to attack your dog, is there any way of determining whose responsibility the hedge is/or more precisely whose responsibility it is to keep a barrier between the houses when both have dogs? I know your poor pet came off the worst here and I know you have corrected it since, but 2 dogs fighting, does happen, doesn't mean a dog is a danger to a human straightaway because it fights another dog. I don't really have great advice, the gates thing is bad, but he gave warning (even if inadequate) and I don't know court could be 50 - 50 for you. If he is borrowing money from you, you won't see a penny even through small claims and you still have to live beside them. Is there any chance of having a talk with them? If not you'll just have to wait and see.

prh47bridge · 27/04/2019 00:02

Bear in mind, to take it to any court (Judge Rinder or real court), you will need to prove that he owes you this money - do you have proof

This is a civil matter so the OP only needs to prove it on the balance of probabilities. She does not need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

I doubt a judge will be sympathetic about the vet claim as you left it a year

The delay isn't particularly relevant. You can enforce a debt up to 6 years after the event that gave rise to the debt. The courts know that people don't always chase debts quickly, especially when dealing with friends or neighbours.

The gates were on his property. Therefore he was within his rights to get rid of them

No, he was not. The relevant law is the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977. He should have given notice in writing requiring the OP to take the gates away by a specified time. If the OP did not comply and he was going to sell the gates, he should then have given notice stating his intention. Following the sale he is, at a minimum, liable to the OP for the sale price less any costs of the sale. As he did not follow the correct procedure and may not have obtained the best price for the gates, he may well be liable for rather more - possibly the cost of replacing the gates.

BoomBoomsCousin · 27/04/2019 00:13

You can claim for the gates. You can even report him to the police for the gates. Knowing they were yours it is theft for him to have sold them, even though you had left them in his garden and he had asked you to move them. He may get away with that by saying even though he knew they were yours he thought he had a right to sell them since they were on his land but it's certainly an arguable case and it may produce evidence you can use in any civil claim or pressure for him to at least give you the money he got for them.

But you are getting into a possible back and forth with a neighbour that could get quite nasty. He could counter sue you for storage fees for the gates and generally be really unpleasant, possibly leading to the sort of dispute you would have to declare when you try to sell your house.

Especially since it doesn't sound like he'd be able to pay anyway, you have a lot to lose and little chance of gain. I would suggest rather than taking him to court it would be better for you, in the long run, to try to calm the waters rather than roil them. Remain pleasant on the surface, give up on the gates and see if you can eventually get your money back from him for the money he borrowed and the vet's fees. But lend him nothing else (e.g. claim not to have whatever he wants available right now) and make any new thing like the dog attack, official at the first opportunity.

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