How do you define class?

[PedroTheCowboy]

I grew up working class. Both my parents have working class jobs, they never went to university and live in a coronation street style terrace house. I went to university and have a phd. I live in a small semi detached house and might be considered lower middle class now. But I can't stop seeing myself as working class. My inlaws also look down on me for being working class because my parents didn't go to uni and they live in a terrace house. What do you think defines someones class? The class they were born, their house, income, university education, the friends they have or their hobbies? Something else?

Working class = the majority of people, some of whom think they are middle class

I would have no problem agreeing with this definition BTW, as long as all those people who cite home ownership, interest in education, good quality food, the arts, outdoors etc, as being not of interest to the working classes STFU.

Barbara - great minds

at last, someone who understands my cryptic posts

@Tensixtysix Ridiculous that we still think of 'class' in this country. The most badly behaved are the upper class.

Irony overload alert!!!

There is the upper class then there is everyone else - the working class.

Middle class is something invented by some working class people to make themselves feel superior to other working class people.

You can spot middle class people because they try and act posher than the upper class people, who don't give a fuck. Or buy their own furniture.

[ducks]

Basically, if you're on MN, you're not working class! Any self-respecting wc person would have zero time for the bullshit spouted on here.

I agree with the poster who highlighted people being nitpicky over the op's choice of words.
Further proof that a lot of MNers live in a middle class bubble with very little real contact with the working class!
If you genuinely don't know where the op is coming from, why bother commenting?

There is the upper class then there is everyone else - the working class.

Middle class is something invented by some working class people to make themselves feel superior to other working class people.

100%

Traditionally working class, tradespeople with no skill - coalminers etc

Mining is a higgly skilled job or more accurately range of jobs. Most of which required considerable skill and training. It wasn't a case of just turning up with a pick axe and hacking away at the first bit of coal you found. My Uncle was a shotfirer and my Grandfather was a rockheader both jobs could have seen them kill themselves and tens of others if they'd fucked up or didn't know what tbey were doing.

Yes they were working xlass, but they were by no means unskilled.

The class system is revolting and should be abolished..

I think the reason class is hard to define is because it's made up! And not really that applicable to life!

But as a concert, I've always thought it had to do with access to certain kinds of cultural things and privileges, not to do with money.

For example, you can be very much upper class, own an inherited massive house, but be personally in debt and basically broke and unable to afford said house. You're still upper class though, because of your lineage

Mainly I think class ideas are a way to keep people in their place, and keep the good stuff and the status for old money upper class families.

That's why, in my opinion, people who are considered 'new money' are often looked down on by society and not accepted to a higher level of social status, even if they are actually much richer and have a higher quality of life!

Basically it's system based on snobbery and exclusivity, not money exactly

The class system is revolting and should be abolished

How could that be achieved? Since it is almost entirely based on the differing opinions of millions of individuals I can't for the life of me see how.

Ha ha.

Our class system is based on centuries of tradition, dating back to medieval times - serfs & landowners.

How exactly would you abolish it?

I suppose ending private education would be a start. But I think that would also take centuries to have an effect.

I would be interested to know if any truly classless societies exist anywhere in the world. Any anthropologists out there know? Even remove tribes in the jungle have some sort of differentiation between people, no?

The class system isn't a law that can be abolished!

There will always be factors that differentiate between groups of people.

The way you define your social class is background and state of mind. The way others perceive your class has some basis on your situation and background but also which social tests you pass.

DP is WC by birth but has worked his way up via an average uni and appears to be very middle class. He easily out earns me and has good work connections. He needs me to actually lend him class. I have the better background, the better education and the better social connections with accompanying perks. I know things that he wasn't taught but which give him away and correct him accordingly. His accent is not as soft as he thinks it is, either. You can tell far more about from "soft indicators" than from obvious fact, too. This is why people who are brash with money will always be described as "new money" despite getting themselves some staff and a big house. They may have moved up financially but they haven't moved on mentally. It's not about changing yourself over night either, just about making an effort in the right situations (which DP does).

If you define me purely by my job the definition you'd give me is definitely below what I actually am. Work always tease me about how "posh" I am and this is what people define me by because it's their overriding impression of me. I am monied beyond my salary, too (the bbc don't like that, it buggers their test). The only real crime against class I have committed is gaining weight after 5 years of misery and lingering leg injuries. I'm sorting that now though.

The most important thing is to simply treat people with courtesy and not show any side. I correct DP in private because he wants me to, I wouldn't do it to anyone else! I don't care where people are from as long as they're nice! Inverted snobs are the biggest dicks, IMO. Outright snobs are usually unpopular, show themselves up as unpleasant and are vilified accordingly. The inverteds get away with it and have serious issues...

There is the upper class then there is everyone else - the working class

Middle class is something invented by some working class people to make themselves feel superior to other working class people

I agree with this statement... however, it would have been invented so many centuries ago that it is now kind of... well... fact! After all, the people of a society invent their own class system.
You can either choose to subscribe to it or not. It’s not a tangible fact as such but a social construct. And now it has existed for so many generations, ‘middle class’ is now established.

This thread has definitely made me realise how WC I probably am! I may enjoy certain ‘middle class’ pursuits, I have the income etc but definitely not the connections!

Mercantile middle class emerged in Medieval times, I think. The Black Death and how it affected the economy also had a huge impact on social mobility. UK class system is probably engrained since at least the Medieval era in one form or another, O would guess.

Any economic or social historians able to explain?

I would have no problem agreeing with this definition BTW, as long as all those people who cite home ownership, interest in education, good quality food, the arts, outdoors etc, as being not of interest to the working classes STFU

Oh this! Definitely! Sums me up perfectly!