How do you define class?

[PedroTheCowboy]

I grew up working class. Both my parents have working class jobs, they never went to university and live in a coronation street style terrace house. I went to university and have a phd. I live in a small semi detached house and might be considered lower middle class now. But I can't stop seeing myself as working class. My inlaws also look down on me for being working class because my parents didn't go to uni and they live in a terrace house. What do you think defines someones class? The class they were born, their house, income, university education, the friends they have or their hobbies? Something else?

It takes 3 generations to move up a class. You cant buy class (for yourself) you can only accrue through the correct education for your children.

People also up-class themselves (and others) by virtue of a degree &/or salary. It doesn't work like that.

To use extreme examples Prince Harry does not have a degree, his A levels were poor, he's a squaddie, actually he's unemployed and lives in a rented house. But he's not working class is he? Npo more than I win the lottery tomorrow and Im not catapulted into the realms of landed gentry.

Class definitions are inexplainable to anyone not British. We just know where we come in the pecking order of life. One look at each other tells us exactly what 'class' we are in; it's a whole combination of manners, words, subtle clothing nuances, the way a tie is knotted or a scarf thrown, how and when you wear jewellery, education, contacts, hair cuts and colours.

The middle class can be the most awful snobs. Didn't Grayson Perry find that working/upper class folk had more in common as they were more grounded in their roots and had nothing to prove but the middle class folk were stuck no man's land? Terrified of dropping down and desperate to clamber up.

Harry was an officer rather than a “squaddie.” There is a world of a difference.

I think the degree issue was only relevant when a higher education was only accessible to certain classes.

I do find these posts interesting because I also don't think it's as easy to define as it might have been a few years ago but I'm not going to pretend that I don't like living somewhere where everyone is nice and works hard to get on and keeps their gardens tidy, is quiet at night, where no-one hangs about on the street. I'm not sure there's a clear distinction between educated working class and not very well off middle class now as so many people I know who are lawyers and doctors are struggling financially, well by that I mean can't send kids to the private schools they went to or go on 3 hols a year. Basically I think we're now either wage slaves with local or nice accents or multiple comfortable properties and portfolio owners doing well above average.

Your like me OP. Your middle class now, but come from a working class background.
I'll always carry my background with me though and take pride in it.

It's not job or money that defines class. I agree with the pp who said that British people can just tell.

It's a combination of lots of things but for me money and job are the least telling. I say that because anyone can achieve a good job and be well off but it's more difficult to move class. I have a professional job and I'm reasonably well off - I'm still most definitely working class.

What PlainSpeakingStraightTalking said.

If you work for a living, you are working class. If you don't you are upper class.
If you call yourself middle class you are the former who wishes they were the later.

"Didn't Grayson Perry find that working/upper class folk had more in common as they were more grounded in their roots and had nothing to prove but the middle class folk were stuck no man's land? Terrified of dropping down and desperate to clamber up."

If he did, then he was quoting Jilly Cooper!

Her book 'Class' has stood the test of time, and is a pretty good explanation if it all.

There was a thread a few days ago about diet and class. If I can find it, I'll link it. There were some very interesting comments about class and health, and his only the privileged can afford to ignore it (or feign to ignore it).

The aunt sounds horrid.

@findingmyfeet12 - yup like Eliza Doolittle, there will be nuances in speech - sitting room or lounge/mirror or looking glass/toilet or loo/luncheon or dinner/napkin or serviette.

You could separate identical twins, put one in a sink estate and one with landed gentry. After 18 years, you could put them side by side, dressed identically, even send them off to get the same hair cut - and you would immediately know which had been brought up where, even before they opened their mouths and you could ascertain by accent and vocabulary. You could tell by posture, the way they stand, the level of eye contact, the how they hold their hands, even how they stand or sit.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3563641-To-wonder-what-exactly-middle-class-and-upper-class-Mums-do-to-be-skinny

OK @Theninjawhinger let's have a crack at this one. A few questions - did you buy your furniture, or inherit? Dad in the navy - was he an officer? Money, banger car, who cares. The point is education and social circle. I'd say you're MC/UMC borderline but there are a few tie-breaker questions in there. And yes, have been drinking too. Speaking of which, final to breaker, what's your favourite tipple?

"If you work for a living, you are working class. If you don't you are upper class.
If you call yourself middle class you are the former who wishes they were the later"

Never come across that one before!

Working class means blue collar workers. It's never really meant white collar workers

Do the ashtray's in your house have a logo on them? :)

"Working class means blue collar workers. It's never really meant white collar workers"

That is snobbishness and to do with money and nothing to do with class. You work for a paycheck? then you are working class, same as the plumber, delivery driver or Company Director.

As an individualistic meritocrat, I hate the British obsession with born class, and feel closer to America.

However, for myself, I have no idea what class I would be considered. On my paternal side, my ancestry is central European aristocracy. On my maternal side, it's Welsh/ Yorkshire peasantry. I fall between the stools.

How they behave is a big factor I think

The type of events they attened

Connections/friends

I moved into the MC when I became a Staff Nurse & therefore a Professional.

Then I lost my career due to my illness & now work as a Healthcare Assistant- no qualifications required, therefore I'm WC again.

Annoying!

The job issue is such a red herring these days.

Class isn't defined by job or money. It's mindset and mannerisms.

No matter how hard you try, it's difficult to behave as though you're from a different class but it's much easier to get a job that's traditionally been associated with another class.

I’m sure if you are middle class you should know that difference between ‘your’ and ‘you are’ 😉

I come from an ethnic minority where people think that getting a professional job and being immaculately turned out automatically catapults you into being middle class regardless of how you speak, behave, your social circle and myriad other factors.

Behaviour and education. Little education in state schools/non-Russel universities and behaviours such as speaking loudly, wearing colourful nail polish and make up, leaving tv on in the back ground, disparaging wealthy or privileged people, scooping rice with a fork and so on indicates lower class. Education at top institutions plus some kind of post graduate qualifications and good manners coupled with an interest in ‘fine’ culture of some sort and adherence of archaic and bizarre unspoken dress codes individuate supper class.

I don’t think degrees are relevant. These days anyone can get a degree and a lot of people do it to gain financially not because they have the finances.
Being ‘educated’ does not mean what it once did that’s for sure.