To be terrified about climate change?

[misspuggy]

Extinction rebellion has encouraged me to do a lot of reading around climate change. I admit, before this action I wasn't aware of quite how catastrophic climate change was. I'm now really quite scared, and worried for my son's future and the future of any children he may have.

The attitude of some world leaders towards climate change is also quite terrifying.

I can't join the extinction rebellion protests as I work in law enforcement, but am now quite proud of those there. My brother is one of those who was arrested.

Anyone else shitting themselves over it?

Let's be honest....no Government is ever going to make the massive changes needed to tackle this because it would upset the majority of voters (who do not spend any time or thought on climate change).

It will be a much bigger, nastier version of Brexit where we close our borders, deal with resettlement of 'our own' and will probably end in shoot to kill policy for climate refugees trying to get across via sea.

That's my prediction. Scarce or limited resources tend to bring out the worst in humans.

We'll also probably move to a more concentrated form of capitalism, when the breakdown of developing countries occurs that we depend on for cheap goods these will become more scarce. There will be a return to the masses providing back breaking work for the basics and people similar to 'Lords' who will be the only ones able to get the 'luxuries' (which includes much of what we think of as necessities now).

The time between say 1945-x when we knew relatively peace and (very) relative social mobility and equality will be the weird blip.

I haven't stopped crying since I found out the ice caps are melting

climate refugees trying to get across the sea

I think WE are the ones who would be leaving right ?

Isn't the only habitable bit going to be around the equator?

Climate change is pretty scary, yes, but I find deforestation/plastics/declining biodiversity/dwindling resources and so on a bit scarier still. I sort of think climate change is going to be OK.

I don’t think for a second that we are going to stop climate change without a collapse of capitalism and an extreme shift in global power.

I think, actually, only capitalism can save us. Monetise pollution now!

Of course UABVU to be "terrified about climate change". You can't make any significant changes by yourself so to be terrified about it is an incredible over-reaction. It is fine to be concerned but to become terrified is OTT. Perhaps you should consider some counselling to try and put your views and fear into perspective.

@furrytoebean

I don't see the point of worrying about it. I won't be here so I can't say I am bothered, although my preference would be for the earth to keep spinning, nothing I can do about it, although as an individual I am trying to make changes.

We are all passing through. I will let those with kids worry about their kids.

I think WE are the ones who would be leaving right ?

Isn't the only habitable bit going to be around the equator?*

I haven't seen the latest DA documentary but everything I've seen to date has suggested the areas around the equator will become completely scorched and unlivable. Apart from low lying countries like Bangladesh which will be under water. The UK would be hotter, partially submerged but the remaining areas liveable (until they're not I guess...).

It's hard to admit it, but there really are too many people on the planet. We need to populate less.
We need to stop being a throw away society, we need to buy much fewer clothes, be mindful of where/ what those clothes are made of ( synthetic clothing can have plastics in ) therefore when washed the tiny microfibres of plastic are going into our seas.
We need to travel less, grow foods more sympathetically. Recycle,recycle and recycle .
Use less fuels, buy less phones, tablets, and consumables . Repair things instead of renew.

The problem we will have in the UK is the drainage system. We haven’t properly updated the drains for a long time and we just can’t cope with the population growth and extra water.
We could start putting the infrastructure in now to prevent this but of course we won’t.

I think what we can do about it on a personal level is v limited. Protesting is probably the most effective thing we can do.

Overpopulation is at the heart of the issue (obviously).

People are still banging on about pensions.

Whatever happens...we (the West) will almost certainly find a way to make sure it touches us least and the poorer 80% of the world more.

That's how humans have always worked over the ages.

I agree that there will be Green Terrorists at some point - mass murder in the name of decreasing the human population.

furrytoebean I'm intrigued by this - can you expand? Do you mean our problem with flooding?
I think we've got water resource problems all round - from supply through to pollution to flooding.
I think the big global wars in the future will be about water supply.

1. Yes. Fear never solved problems.
2. If it makes you feel any better climate modelling science is consistently wrong so it may not be as bad as scientists think at the moment (it may be much worse! Just kidding, predictions are very dire, it’s unlikely to be worse).
3. There is inherent bias in the climate science community which may be behind the over confident predictions. I would take the things you read with a pinch of salt.

If you are genuinely concerned about climate change I would reccomendgoing back to university to do a science degree and go into research and do something to change it. This could be by directly studying climate science and creating more reliable modelling techniques. Or it could be by going into engineering and creating more climate friendly technologies. Hell, you could even go a study behavioural economics and apply that to solving behavioural patterns that may cause or exacerbate climate change.

If you are just enjoying the hysteria and have no interest beyond virtue signalling with reusable coffee cups then carry on and have fun

@Victoriabun or we could increase capacity through innovation. With the help of GMOs, nuclear fission generators and new generation biodegradables we could easily sustain our population if governments stopped interfering. The technology is either available or nearly available. There is absolutely no need for anyone to die/forego having children etc. The problem isn’t a practical one. It’s political.

Dressless there's an incredible range of actions someone can take between simply using a reusable coffee cup or going back to university to train as a top-level research scientist.
Being a local influencer in work, schools and communities can make a big difference - from voluntary work on environmental projects, advocacy about sustainability, pressuring councils to take action, galvanising local businesses to monitor and tackle carbon footprints - we do need the majority of people to be convinced about climate change and the need for environmental sustainability before the research will even have an impact. So vocal support is important too.

haventgottime

So basically our demand for new housing has meant in lots of places we haven’t planned for effective drainage in some places, but we also have been relying on the old Victorian systems in towns and cities with just not enough money to keep updating them for the amount of people who now live there.
It’s the least sexy way to spend money ever, drains. No politician is going to run on the back of more building restrictions and spending money on infrastructure you can’t even see.
That combined with the fact that we have way more concreted, patioed, tarmacced land now the drainage is pretty poor. So we have more people using less effective drains, more water, less natural drainage and the possibility of climate change bringing higher sea levels and more rain in general.
It’s a perfect storm for flooding.

Write to your MP, tell them you’re terrified. Ask what they’re doing about it and don’t give up your correspondence when they give you a shit answer.
And switch to renewable energy.
Stop eating meat.

furry I agree, I live in an area plagued by surface flooding due to poor infrastructure.
I think water management will be a huge challenge, I can't believe rainwater harvesting isn't a mandatory feature of new developments and am also angered that councils don't have the balls to enforce the creation of sustainable drainage. But I think we can do a lot of catchment-scale work to manage flood risk - coastal flooding, and water shortage, is a greater threat to the UK in my opinion (if we can implement landscape-scale management change pretty damn quickly, that is)

A huge percentage of soy though, is used to feed livestock I believe. So cut out the animal products and you will cut down massively on soy production.

Or just be very selective about where you buy meat. Local (to us) grass-fed lamb has no soy in the food chain. Nor does some rare-breed pork or slow-grown freerange chicken I can buy in the farmer's market. It costs a shitload more than supermarket meat, but that's the genuine price of sustainable farming practices. Eating this kind of meat once every couple of weeks (or better, less often) is sustainable. Ditto for eggs from small free range flocks of chickens that are in shops near me. Dairy is harder, but grass fed milk does exist (see the Pasture for Life logo) and I can buy it locally now I know where to look.

The most sustainable human diet is local and unprocessed and light on meat, not necessarily vegan. The worst of animal farming does horrendous damage to the planet (soy for animal feed, pollution from animal waste) but so too does the worst of plant farming for common products in a vegan diet (soy, corn monocultures, air freighted chillis and avocados, every litre of almond milk taking nearly 1000 litres of water to produce). It's more important to be conscientious about the sustainable origin of your food than be vegan, in environmental terms.

A recent, properly-run study (of the food actual people ate over a week, as opposed to some hypothetical diet) found that omnivores generated worse carbon, water and ecological footprints than other diets, but there were no differences in the environmental impacts of ovo-lacto-vegetarians and vegans. Moreover, some vegetarians and vegans had higher environmental impacts than those of some omnivores. It all depends how you source your food. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-06466-88*

The thing is though is that the number of people who say they only buy and eat locally produced, grass fed, free range meat and dairy and those is probably much higher than those that actually do.
I used to try and eat this way and found that what I actually did was buy organic eggs and milk and the occasional organic free range chicken, and sometimes got a riverford box. But the rest of the time I wouldn’t check.
So I wouldn’t ask in a restaurant or someone’s house where they sourced their meat I would just eat it.
I felt like I was doing my best but I wasn’t.

If you seriously do only eat local then that’s great but I do think there’s lots of people who use that as a get out.

What is the David Attenborough documentary - is it part of a series?

You're probably right about people using it as a get out. I don't eat meat at all when eating out, but will have dairy etc. and it's not always possible to know where it's from then.

On the other hand, the English goat's cheese and beetroot salad on the menu has travelled a hell of a lot less far (and had less processing) than the seitan burger with sriracha mayo. So I'd still use distance and processing as a cue when eating out.

It’s such a difficult one and I don’t think there’s such thing as the perfect diet, we’re all going to be making an impact.
I agree that some vegan choices will be less environmentally friendly than some non vegan options but for most vegans it’s not just about climate change, it’s that paired with animal welfare.
Before I went vegan I think I got decision fatigue, I would be so overwhelmed by what to eat and buy that I would swing from being incredibly anxious about it to throwing my hands up and saying fuck it.
For me being vegan is a simple way for me to lower my overall impact. It’s not about every micro decision but the consistent choices over time.

I completely respect other people coming to different conclusions though, and I know for a fact there are some omnivores living a less impactful live than me.

I also fully acknowledge that I am time rich, live in a 2 person household where the other person is happy to just eat whatever and have no health implications.

I was also brought up veggie so my default eating is mostly lentils anyway. So it was relatively easy for me.