To be terrified about climate change?

[misspuggy]

Extinction rebellion has encouraged me to do a lot of reading around climate change. I admit, before this action I wasn't aware of quite how catastrophic climate change was. I'm now really quite scared, and worried for my son's future and the future of any children he may have.

The attitude of some world leaders towards climate change is also quite terrifying.

I can't join the extinction rebellion protests as I work in law enforcement, but am now quite proud of those there. My brother is one of those who was arrested.

Anyone else shitting themselves over it?

It terrifies me, especially as it’s blindingly obvious we’re not going to change. It’s the mass migration of entire continents that I think will end it for us. Even if we managed to stop making it worse now, huge areas are completely uninhabitable and those people need to move. I think that will cause some kind of war/ mass murder/ rebellion that we can’t plan for.

moscovv a lot of very popular veggie options are as bad or even worse than responsibly farmed meat (soy and avocados particularly)

I find it terrifying - particularly the lack of, well, planning for things like large scale movement of people as places become uninhabitable.
I do believe in grassroots action to try and halt it, but i think the bigger political end of it needs to be done too. Its like the decision has been made to just carry on as now until resources are so tight that massive wars break out and that will sort out consumption and population problems and the people left can just sort it out in the habitable bits.

I think you’re right @grasspigeons.

Look at how people in the uk want us to close our boarders as it is. Brexit ending free movement of people etc. It’s already beginning to happen. I think a lot of the world leaders actually know how bad it is, but instead of tackling it, they are preparing for what will inevitably happen when we start to really run out of resources.

@CupOhTea that's fantastic, well done!

Yes @RocketSurgery soy and avocado are - however a) meat eaters eat them both as well. B) the vast majority of soy grown is used to feed animals, not to make soya milk or other soy products for humans. If we stop eating meat - no animals need to be bred purely to be eaten, so no animals to provide soy for. The amount of soy needed to produce veggie soya products for humans, even if every person in the world went vegan, is still less than what animal agriculture uses

@RocketSurgery

You’re right about avocados, though there are some available which aren’t so bad.

A huge percentage of soy though, is used to feed livestock I believe. So cut out the animal products and you will cut down massively on soy production.

X post @moscovv.

Thanks!

moscovv I didn’t know that about soy, thanks for that. I’m currently trying to wean my family onto a veggie diet and all my dm keeps telling me is how useless it all is

We have gone vegan, not going to have kids, have stopped flying, reduced plastic (using splosh products for cleaning which I wholeheartedly recommend) and we’ve got rid of our car.

I am more than happy to do the small changes that need to be done on a personal level but I don’t think for a second that we are going to stop climate change without a collapse of capitalism and an extreme shift in global power.

Entirely agree @furrytoebean

I feel totally uneducated about this - off to watch the David Attenborough documentary now.

I don’t think for a second that we are going to stop climate change without a collapse of capitalism and an extreme shift in global power.

I agree completely.

I don’t even know that it would be possible to stop climate change at all. What I hope is that we can work to make the rest of our time as a species on this planet as bearable as possible for us and other species.

I don’t think we can go on forever, or for that many more generations. That doesn’t even especially bother me. It’s how we behave in the time we have left; ie, not destroying the entire planet before we die off. I said ages ago on another thread that when people say they are going to do what they like, because humans are dying off anyway, that’s like being a tenant in a property and wrecking the place because their lease is up. I won’t do it. It’s cunty.

I’m pinning my hopes on Greta thurnberg

She is great, obviously but isn't it sad that the adult politicians are so self-serving and refusing to be honest or make tough decisions.

We have all got so used to having very comfortable lives that the idea of going back to how we used to live, say in the 70s and 80s, is too unpalatable for governments to enforce. And by that I mean most holidays in the UK, much less plastic, one car per family, much less plastic tat, goods produced locally and not mass-produced all over the world, reusing, no rampant consumerism, living close to work, goods made to last instead of having inbuilt obsolescence, etc, etc.

We can some things ourselves, but alot is do with globalisation and the infrastructure of the country, which can only really end tackled by big business and governments. It is tough to force yourself to be vegetarian when nextdoor are building a swimming pool and taking international holidays twice a year. To be honest, most people I know like to do their bit but cherry pick the easy bits that fit into their lifestyles. And we are equally guilty.

This is a good debate from both sides and no the science isn’t settled

Oh and we are vegan in this house, not because of supposed CO2 led ‘climate change’ but because the way we treat animals is utterly appalling and horrific, not to mention the devasting effects it has on the environment in terms of deforestation and waste pollution

We’re too selfish and governments are too scared to do anything truly meaningful.

As a family my son and I do what we can.
We’re almost vegan (we eat some eggs from a local free range producer).
We mainly buy British in season fruit/veg.
We walk virtually eveywhere.
I buy him second hand clothes.
I buy second hand toys.
I used second hand washable nappies.
I only use fully biodegradable toiletries/cleaning products.
I’m selling my car as I don’t use it.
I haven’t flown in almost three years.
I buy very little technology.
I don’t regularly buy myself new clothes/shoes.
I haven’t increased the worlds population (son is adopted) by reproducing.

It'll be alright and Greta is puppet

Having said that, things we have changed as a family:

1. Moved jobs/home to within cycling distance of work/school.
2. Cycling and not taking the car as much as possible.
3. Meat-free days.
4. Composting food waste.
5. Using Tupperware and reusable bags.
6. Changed energy provider - despite being offered a hefty discount with old ones (bastards!)
7. Using water within the home - trying to cut the bill down further each quarter.

To be honest, most people I know like to do their bit but cherry pick the easy bits that fit into their lifestyles. And we are equally guilty

I have to agree with this sadly. I’ve made many changes but simply couldn’t bring myself to not fly off on holiday with the kids each year. It’s so important to me, I practically live for those times. I know it’s shit for the environment but it’s too much of a sacrifice to give it up.

I can’t say that the idea of living through the collapse of capitalism is particularly appealing to me to be honest.

I always remember watching a debate in the European Parliament when the refugee crisis was at its beginning and a woman was talking and said something along the lines of ‘well we need to create a robust infrastructure for movement of people and decide our and tighten up the laws now, as this is the rest run for when we have mass displacement of people in the next 50 years due to climate change’
No one corrected her, no one said, well we don’t know if that’s going to happen actually, the debate just kept ticking as though that was a perfectly normal thing to say.
I was stunned and it’s made me think totally differently about it all since then.

I think the people in power know how shit it’s going to be, but they are only interested in the short term goal of staying in power. So aren’t addressing it properly.

I don’t think for a second that we are going to stop climate change without a collapse of capitalism and an extreme shift in global power

^This

I think the people in power know how shit it’s going to be

Yep. I’d say they know better than most people tbh.

That discussion at the European Parliament does not surprise me at all.

I do veer between thinking “we have to do something to stop climate change” and “we need to prepare for climate change”. I now lean much more towards the latter.

Either way, sitting about pretending it isn’t happening isn’t an option for me.

Electric vehicles emit more CO2 than diesel ones, German study shows

Only when based on the average of electricity generation methods in Germany, which includes a significant number of coal-fuelled power stations.

If you get your electricity from renewable sources - such as by using a supplier that uses only renewables to contribute to the grid, for instance - and use it to charge your vehicle, then electric cars produce far less CO2 than diesel ones.

To be honest, most people I know like to do their bit but cherry pick the easy bits that fit into their lifestyles

I also agree with this. But there are things we all can do.

I think not having children because of their contributions to climate change is an amazing sacrifice.

I, (selfishly), have two dcs and even if we all died in a flood / other climate change disaster tomorrow I’d be glad I had them. Having children is a biological imperative and a right to family life is a basic human right. I know lots of people adopt, but it can be very complicated and some scarily high number of adoptions fail, which must be heartbreaking for everyone.

That said, I do find myself hoping that if my children’s generation is the last one to have a reasonably comfortable life on this planet, then I truly hope my dcs don’t have children of their own.

But as I’ve said my hope isn’t that we stop climate change altogether as I don’t even think that is possible at the moment. Even if we stopped all carbon emissions right now I think we’d still be feeling the effects in a few decades. I don’t think I’m making that up!

So, for me, it comes down to weighing up what makes your life worth living against what we can reasonably do to make life worth living for future generations.

I can live without meat and flying abroad on holiday. We use reusable nappies. I can live without disposables. But, I couldn’t live without my children, or my life would not be worth living.

If I had my time again, I would still have them. But, maybe if I was born a generation later, I would feel differently.

Only this morning on here, I saw Discussions of the Day/Blog (not sure) flash up with Reusable Nappies - too much hassle?

YANBU OP. I watched the David Attenborough documentary and was nearly in tears. It was excellent and I was also amazed there was less chat on it here on Mumsnet. I have 2 children and worry about the world they will inherit. We are making deliberate changes in plastic and energy usage in our household and recycle as much as we can. We buy quality and for the long term instead of disposable items. There is so much more we can do.

My worry is that for anyone to start taking it seriously, we are going to have to experience a tipping point as described in the program....by which time it will likely be too late.☹️

That said, I do find myself hoping that if my children’s generation is the last one to have a reasonably comfortable life on this planet, then I truly hope my dcs don’t have children of their own.

I'm not sure we can say that our children can have a reasonably comfortable life on this planet at this stage unless things change very quickly. Its not as far ahead as our grandchildren for those of us with school aged children now.