To ask how to sort out this situation with DD and her work

[Clairesbalding]

DD has just turned 16 and has been desperate to get a little part time job. The local store in the next village was advertising for casual staff so she sent a lovely, polite message and the owner sent her an equally lovely message asking her to pop and see her.
As DD was very unsure and young I went along with her. The owner was lovely, very smiley and friendly and assured me that DD would be treated well, not expected to carry heavy items and could work as many hours as she felt comfortable with bearing in mind she has her GCSEs coming up.

All great you would think, DD went to work the following morning and worked 9-3. I picked her up and she was nearly in tears. She’d not been given a break at all, hadn’t even had a drink of water. She’d been expected to carry shelving, clean, mop, sweep, stack shelves, full freezers etc and if she stopped for a minute the owner told her off.
She got paid £25 cash in hand which didn’t quite work out at the 4.20 an hour she’d been promised. I was torn between telling her not to go back but at the same time I felt she needed to give it a little longer and see if she’d settle in.
She was asked to work 2 hours a few days later and again It was the same heavy, donkey work. She wasn’t paid.

DD didn’t hear anything else until 2 weeks later when she got a text asking her to work 4.5 hours, 2 evenings. Bear in mind the texts are short and sharp ‘can you work’ and that’s all, no hello, please or thank you etc. The owners manner has changed dramatically since I met her but I said to DD just ignore that - take the hours you want etc.
DD went to work, same sort of cleaning, stacking etc. Fine it’s shop work, so that’s to be expected.

DD is now owed 2 evenings, plus the 2 hours from 2 weeks before,. Yesterday came and went - no pay. Owner text last night to ask if DD could work this evening, yes said DD but please can you confirm that I’ll be paid tomorrow for the hours I’m owed. No reply from owner.

DD has gone to work this evening and text me within 10 minutes of being there - the owner went up to her and said ‘I don’t like people asking about wages - don’t do it again’ and pointed her finger in her face!!

I went to go over and confront the owner and pick up DD whilst ensuring she was paid every penny she is owed but DD doesn’t want to cause a scene and would rather finish her shift tonight then quit tomorrow.

If DD doesn’t not get paid the correct amount how can I go about making sure she is paid? She has not been officially taken on I don’t think and it’s all cash in hand. I’m so bloody annoyed but want to keep my cool. It’s a small village and she’s the type to bad mouth people I think (she puts everything on the shop FB page).

I’m not great at saying the right thing but I want to go over an make sure DD gets paid and make sure the owner knows she’s an appalling employer. I’d love some advice please?

Beat her to it and ask for your dd wages on her face book page. Do it when the ahop is busy when she wont have time to see and remove it before customers do.you can also report it to hmrc as she is paying cash

Thanks - I’d like to have some sort of threat of HMRC up my sleeve if possible, all we want Is DD paid correctly and then she can finish. She’s a lovely girl, really happy friendly and polite and the owner thinks she’s a cut above all her staff and talks to them like dirt.
Outwardly she’s a pillar of the community though - I’m amazed that more people haven’t had their fingers burned working for her.

I think the owner could be on decidedly dodgy grounds employing your dd cash in hand - insurance if she had an accident?!

I'd be tempted to tot up (well, get dd to; good practice for her maths gcse ) how much her hours at the agreed rate should be. Or, in fact, £4.35, which is the NMW for 16 year olds.

Pop in to the shop with dd & request the money. If it's not promptly forthcoming, explain that you'll be reporting her to HMRC.

Was dd seen by customers? This could be helpful in proving that she was actually working there?

www.gov.uk/report-cash-in-hand-pay

Hate it when teenagers are treated badly in their first jobs. Why do people see a teen and think ‘yay, hours of free labour?’

Nothing wrong with paying in cash btw as long as all tax and NI paid ... so unless you know that’s not being done you can’t report for that.

beta.acas.org.uk/national-minimum-wage-entitlement/if-an-employer-does-not-pay-minimum-wage

I would post it on the fb too, so everyone can see.

Yes, DD has been keeping a list of dates and times owed and knows to the penny how much she is owed. I think the it’s the owners rude and nasty manner that bothers me the most though - she was the loveliest, nicest person when we popped to see her and I felt happy leaving DD to work for her. DD says she treats all the youngsters working there the same, literally like skivvies - no breaks, no stopping for a moment, the ‘break room’ is a filthy cupboard with a sink. There are lots of under 18s, no doubt to take advantage of the £4.20 an hour they work for).
Makes me mad!

ThanksDriver no, cash is fine - I used to run pubs & we always paid the staff in cash, often at the end of the shift for casual or part time staff. But then you have to give them a slip or use a suitably printed envelope explaining any deductions or employer contributions.

OP's dd wasn't being given a pay slip - I'd say it's vanishingly unlikely that any of this was going through the books! She can complain re lack of pay slip with evidence of NI etc.

Your poor DD, what an awful first job experience. Definitely report her to HMRC if she doesn’t pay your DD what she’s owed. When your DD gets her next job (hopefully this hasn’t put her off!) she needs to make sure she has a contract with an agreed payment schedule e.g. £4.20 per hour to be paid into her bank weekly in arrears. Also, unless it’s changed since I was that age (quite some time ago, I’ll admit) there are also laws around rest breaks for under 18s which I think is at least 30 minutes break for every 4.5 hours worked. And next time don’t go with her to the interview, it won’t look great for somewhere more professional.

Possibly a dull question but if the pay is £4.20an hour if she is paying DDs tax and NI will DD actually take that amount home?

I know she’ll be under the tax threshold but will the NI need to come out of the 4.20 an hour?

Your daughter should be paying tax so if she getting cash in hand she needs to fill out a tax return. It’s unlikely she will earn enough to be over the threshold, but she will still need to do a return.

There’s no point in her working there if they are going to be dodgy about paying her, especially if she doesn’t like it. She need to go in, hand in her notice, and demand her pay.

That said, aside from the money (which isn’t acceptable) it sounds like your daughter needs to be a bit more resilient. Unless she has a physical disability (in which case it’s different) she should be willing to pitch in with the hard work. If she physically can’t life something she can say, but sweeping and mopping and lifting things are par for the course imo. My experience is also that you won’t get chatty text messages about shifts from managers. They’re usually brusque and business like.

The no breaks thing is bad too, but I would focus on getting her wages and then helping her find a new job. But for god’s sake make sure the next one isn’t cash in hand because very few 16 year olds have the nous to sort out their own taxes.

Just to add, it wasn’t an interview as such, the owner just asked DD to pop over for a chat. She asked to see DD and I offered to sit in the car - the owner said, no it’s ok I’d rather you come in too so you can be happy that DD will be ok! I wouldn’t go along to a proper interview 🙈

Cash in hand isn’t a problem- how could that be connected to insurance?

I don’t think the type of work is really an issue- school age jobs will always be like that- but the lack of payments, absolutely unacceptable, and I’d be down there immediately demanding the money. Mind you, from what you’ve said I imagine the shop keeper has a lot of parents down there so is probably used to it

You can be paid cash in hand & still be paye so no need to do a tax return (as long as the employer is putting it through paye it’s no different to being paid by bacs)
Op I’m afraid some of the things you mention are just part of working in retail, staff rooms are often not much more than a grotty cupboard & cleaning, stacking shelves etc are part of the job. Obviously the money situation is not on at all & your Dd should be paid and given a pay slip

Surely DD won’t have earned enough to be paying tax?

DD friend, also aged 16 worked 47 hours in a week (last week) and was underpaid by £40! The owner does not keep record of who is working what - this child was also given a 15 minute break after 10 hours then had to work a further 2 hours one day. It’s absolutely ridiculous!

No and personally at 16 there is no way I’d be making her fill out a self assessment for a few weeks shop work 🤣 I wouldn’t worry about it OP

I did have a chat to DD about the work - I don’t really have a problem with what she’s being asked to do - it’s what expected for shop work and I did think it would give DD an eye opener into the real world. Yes, she’s tired when she finishes work but work is work and she needs to earn her pay like the rest of them. The final straw is DD being told off for asking about wages. No one should be pointing in her face. How I’ve not gone over there this evening and kicked off I don’t know!

Not sure about 16yos but when working in the NHS we didn't get a break if working for 6hrs a day or less. That's not to say we didn't grab a quick tea from the kitchen but no specified break. After that you'd get a 30min lunch break!

16-17-year-olds get £4.05 to £4.20 ph. Normally, 30% is deducted at source and sent to HMRC for them to sort out what you owe. She should be given a slip and should contact the taxman for details and refunds.

breaks for teens and u 18s is different to adults - you need to check what applies.

My Step daughter was severely taken advantage of aged 17, then sacked due to 'discrepancies' and refusal to pay her last two weeks pay due to the same.

I kicked off, in the shop! I went when I knew they would be busy. They had been making her work all day Sat and Sun without a break, then were shocked when the till was down by a fiver or so. Well, I pointed out I would make mistakes if left all day without as much as a chance to take a pee!

I suggested if they genuinely thought she had stolen the money, they were welcome to call the police there and then, otherwise to pay her the money owed. Funnily enough, they paid her!

I think you need to kick off a bit and stick up for her!

Normally, 30% is deducted at source and sent to HMRC for them to sort out what you owe. She should be given a slip and should contact the taxman for details and refunds.

Not really true! As long as you provide the information so that the correct tax code is applied (with a P45 or new starter form), then you should be able to earn £12,000 pa ish without deductions.

The only way you would be “emergency taxed”, as it’s commonly known, is if this info isn’t provided, or you’re working a second job. And even then, it’s 20%, not 30%.

OP my DD was treated very similarly at the local village shop. She did lots of training hours, which she was never paid for, and the owner was a bully who would watch the CCTV recording to check that nobody ever stopped working.

DD was a few years older than your daughter, and is quite feisty. She printed off some info from the internet about reporting the owner to ACAS, and showed it to him. She got the money she was owed and walked out . It's appalling that this kind of treatment is so common.