To ask how to sort out this situation with DD and her work

[Clairesbalding]

DD has just turned 16 and has been desperate to get a little part time job. The local store in the next village was advertising for casual staff so she sent a lovely, polite message and the owner sent her an equally lovely message asking her to pop and see her.
As DD was very unsure and young I went along with her. The owner was lovely, very smiley and friendly and assured me that DD would be treated well, not expected to carry heavy items and could work as many hours as she felt comfortable with bearing in mind she has her GCSEs coming up.

All great you would think, DD went to work the following morning and worked 9-3. I picked her up and she was nearly in tears. She’d not been given a break at all, hadn’t even had a drink of water. She’d been expected to carry shelving, clean, mop, sweep, stack shelves, full freezers etc and if she stopped for a minute the owner told her off.
She got paid £25 cash in hand which didn’t quite work out at the 4.20 an hour she’d been promised. I was torn between telling her not to go back but at the same time I felt she needed to give it a little longer and see if she’d settle in.
She was asked to work 2 hours a few days later and again It was the same heavy, donkey work. She wasn’t paid.

DD didn’t hear anything else until 2 weeks later when she got a text asking her to work 4.5 hours, 2 evenings. Bear in mind the texts are short and sharp ‘can you work’ and that’s all, no hello, please or thank you etc. The owners manner has changed dramatically since I met her but I said to DD just ignore that - take the hours you want etc.
DD went to work, same sort of cleaning, stacking etc. Fine it’s shop work, so that’s to be expected.

DD is now owed 2 evenings, plus the 2 hours from 2 weeks before,. Yesterday came and went - no pay. Owner text last night to ask if DD could work this evening, yes said DD but please can you confirm that I’ll be paid tomorrow for the hours I’m owed. No reply from owner.

DD has gone to work this evening and text me within 10 minutes of being there - the owner went up to her and said ‘I don’t like people asking about wages - don’t do it again’ and pointed her finger in her face!!

I went to go over and confront the owner and pick up DD whilst ensuring she was paid every penny she is owed but DD doesn’t want to cause a scene and would rather finish her shift tonight then quit tomorrow.

If DD doesn’t not get paid the correct amount how can I go about making sure she is paid? She has not been officially taken on I don’t think and it’s all cash in hand. I’m so bloody annoyed but want to keep my cool. It’s a small village and she’s the type to bad mouth people I think (she puts everything on the shop FB page).

I’m not great at saying the right thing but I want to go over an make sure DD gets paid and make sure the owner knows she’s an appalling employer. I’d love some advice please?

If she's still at school then she needs a permit to work and they are very strict in the hours worked and jobs allowed. She won't be insured if she hasn't got one.

I'd go in when they are busy and refuse to leave until you have the money.

DD had this working in a local pub - the landlord was a nasty piece of work although all smiles to customers. I sat at the bar on a Saturday evening telling everyone that he owed DD 6 evenings of wages and her tips........ he soon coughed up and was all gritted teeth smiles about the "misunderstanding". I told him that the only misunderstanding was that he thought he could bully a 16 year old that had a Mum like me........ and I left a post on their FB page right at the start of a busy evening so he didn't see it for 4 hours.......!

Passthecherrycoke - I mentioned insurance because if no record of employees is kept, it's quite likely the shop's employee liability insurance would be a bit buggered? If this shop owner is so casual about everything, they may well not have that, either.

I've worked for some fairly dodgy types in my youth & this sort of corner cutting isn't uncommon.

Anyway, I imagine the best outcome for OP's dd would be to collect he money, move on, & warn her mates not to take a job there...

What sort of insurance? I’m
Not really following. A shop doesn’t have the record everyone working/ entering for public liability purposes, and paying cash in hand doesn’t mean you don’t keep records anyway?

Although I e plenty of employers like this are dodgy and couldn’t care less whether they are insured or not

Although I agree plenty of employers like this are dodgy and couldn’t care less whether they are insured or not

OP, you stick up for your DD and do whatever it takes to get her money for her.

My DM waded in for me when I was having problems in my first job in public libraries. She drilled me with what to say to one bully, drove me to where he was working on a Saturday. I swept in, wiped the floor with him in front of his Saturday assistants and then swept out again. With the other bully DM dealt with her, rang her up and told her a few home truths about her behaviour. Neither staff member would ever work with me again, I was known as too hot to handle.

I loved my DM for what she did for me, unconditional support. Your DD will too.

You don’t need to fill out any sort of tax return if your earnings are below £1000 for the year.

Otherwise every paper deliverer and Saturday job child would be swamping HMRC with their £10 per week job.
You don’t pay tax until you go over something like £11000 per year.

Just to clarify comments about insurance - definition of employee is really really wide, covers anyone doing casual labour, work experience, community service, sub contracting, volunteering. It follows legislation that says insurers can't really put any meaningful exclusions in there (so couldn't turn down a claim for being paid cash in hand, for not being on the books, for not being given a break etc etc).

Saying someone 'isn't insured' as an employee is a phrase employers use to get out of things. There are very very few situations that are genuinely 'not insured' for employers liability - think offshore or war. She would be covered if she had an accident

Under 18s legally have to have a 20 min break every four hours, so she's on dodgy ground there too. And there are limits as to the hours 16 year olds can work before they leave school.

The NMW has gone up this month - £4.35 for under 18's now @Clairesbalding

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

I'd be posting that on fb too (bolshy) as well as the "please pay my DD" msg

Thank you all, Whenitsover that’s especially interesting. I’m collecting her at 9.30 so I’ll update later...

Surely she's breaching health and safety regulations. Nobody's allowed to lift anything in my office without manual handling training and we risk assess everything to within an inch of its life.

It all sounds extremely dodgy and I'd kick off as much as you need to to get the pay sorted and get your dd out of there.

www.gov.uk/child-employment/restrictions-on-child-employment

Here is the link to rules surrounding child employment. In my area if still in school an employer/child needs a work permit (I am the one who authorises these in my school).

If this is the case in your area I would look into reporting them to the child employment team at your local council.

I agree with PPs - your daughter needs to know that people like this must be stood up to, not allowed to get away with it. Frankly on principle I'd not rest until she paid the outstanding wages. I'd even issue a letter before action followed by a small claim if I had to. It'd be on principle. Sure she'll pay up when an adult asks.

Minimum wage is £4.20 up to 31st March 2019, £4.35 1st April onwards. (depending on when she worked the hours not when she got paid)

She would need to have earnt - based on those figures - £157 before 31st March or £155 1st April onwards per week to be liable for National Insurance - so over 35hrs in a week (NI is not cumulative so each week/month/pay period is calculated separately) (The same figures are when employer NI kick in - but they are payable by the employer not the employee and are not deducted from wages)

She would need to earn £240 per week for Tax liabilities to start. (This is cumulative but so early in the tax year it would be deducted - and refunded if necessary once you hit the limit)

So no from what you have said so far - she would not be liable for any tax/insurance but is definately entitled to a payslip.

I was unpaid in a bar job after several shifts. My dad went in and threatened to go to the local paper (this was pre fb!) and sure enough they paid up!

Well, I collected DD, 15 minutes after the end of her shift when she was STILL cleaning up and waiting for her pay. DD begged me to stay in the car as she didn’t want a scene. DD has been paid the full amount based on 4.20 an hour but she’s been badgered all shift. Her work has been criticised, the owner seems to delight in bullying the younger girls. Despite this the owner told DD she’d be made ‘permanent’ from now on and not to let her down as there will be kids queuing up to take her place.

No pay slip, just the cash in a bag. DD wouldnt let me go in to tell the owner she won’t be returning so I sent a very straight and factual message to say that for the following reasons (working past her paid hours, being told off about asking when her pay will be given etc) DD will not be returning.

Let see if it all gets put on FB!

I think at 16 DD should be dealing with this crap herself, with advice/support. I don’t think it’s appropriate for you to attend a job interview with her or to chase for minimum wage.

At 16 she shouldn't have been working at 9.30 .....

@loopy that’s exactly what the OP has done, given advice and Support. OP said previously that she was planning to stay in the car during the interview but the owner invited her in. She hasn’t chased for minimum wage either, Her DD did by speaking to the owner directly.

ACAS web site - will give you all the information . definitely should be a payslip .

Why ON EARTH have you enabled this person to exploit and continue to exploit your child?!

You should have supported dd to quit after that first shift.

At this point you need to find your spine and confront this piece of shit and tell her she pays your dd what she's owed, or you'll be reporting her to hmrc for tax fraud, wages fraud and to HSE for unsafe working practices. Dd quits and finds work somewhere legitimate.

Then please report to hmrc and HSE.

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/reporting-tax-evasion

www.hse.gov.uk/contact/whistleblowers.htm

www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/young-workers

This is bloody outrageous!

And sometimes you overrule your kids desire to avoid embarrassment (you staying in the car) if it's for their own good.

Personally I'd ask dd to show you she has actually been paid correctly and isn't lying to you to prevent you confronting this person.

Learning that their are times you stand up for yourself is an important life lesson - especially in this case if you don't want her to be exploited her entire working life.

Girls and women experience discrimination every day. The sooner she learns not to tolerate it the better.

Is report to the VAT MAN
I know it’s nothing to do with it. But a VAT audit is end of days for someone like that. Because I’d be surprised if she wasn’t fiddling VAT somehow.
HMRC will give zero fucks

Also don her in for employing illegals. Just for fun.

I wold report, even