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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to dock this employees pay

202 replies

Fruitsaladjelly · 15/04/2019 19:53

I have an employee who is employed 5 days per week but one of these days is spent at University studying for a professional qualification, the company also funds the course fees as this will be a benefit to us in the long term. This employee works in another office and therefore I don’t have direct daily contact. Today would normally be a university day but they are now on Easter holidays so I called to speak to her only to find she hadn’t come into work because Tuesdays are her uni day! Next week the same person has booked Wednesday, Thursday and Friday off as annual leave, no mention of Tuesday although she clearly is away for the entire week despite being paid to work Tuesdays. This is is more of a wwyd I suppose. I expect her in work if not pursuing the professional qualification, I expect extra study time to be completed in her own time as I personally feel being paid to study and having her course fees covered is perk enough so I don’t think calling the days ‘study days’ is good enough should that excuse be given. In any case I very much doubt she intends to take ‘study’ away on holiday despite it being a paid work day. It feels a bit CF

OP posts:
ABC1234DEF · 15/04/2019 20:27

On the assumption that you pay her uni hours, it's fair to not pay them if she hasn't attended university or work

XXcstatic · 15/04/2019 20:27

Surely you are aware that universities have holidays? It's not as if she has been pretending to go into uni during term time, then skiving.

You sound pretty chaotic as a business tbh Who on earth pays for an employee to spend 20% of their time studying, without clarifying what the terms and conditions are? I'd be pretty hacked off if I were her colleagues, but I don't think the actual employee has does anything wrong. This is your oversight, not hers.

augustboymummy17 · 15/04/2019 20:27

I think this time your going to have to let it go and then draw up an agreement with her about coming in on a Tuesday if she isn't on her course especially as uni will only have another month or so until they break up for summer!

You can't just dock her pay as you don't have a contract and could end up in a tribunal if you do this!

puppy23 · 15/04/2019 20:27

Did she have work she had to be doing for uni? Essay writing etc?

Witchtower · 15/04/2019 20:28

@Fruitsaladjelly what a bloody nightmare and how disorganised of your company to agree to this without nothing in writing. In fact there MUST be something in writing. It’s being funded at your company’s expense. They must have some sort of agreement in place so she doesn’t up and leave after completing the course.
I think you need to check the details first.

Witchtower · 15/04/2019 20:30

I wouldn’t even try and duck and days pay. You gave no contract, you are on thin ice.

edwinbear · 15/04/2019 20:30

You sound pretty chaotic as a business tbh. Quite. OP doesn’t appear to know what day of the week it is.

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 15/04/2019 20:31

I’m confused, today is Monday, so are you expecting her not to show up tomorrow? Have you contacted her and asked her to come in? She maybe thinks she can use tomorrow as independent study? I would assume the uni has set a certain amount of work/reading for over the holidays.

PunkRockHippy · 15/04/2019 20:32

Surprised you don’t have a formal study/training agreement with her - what protection do you have that she’ll stay with you after she qualifies? I’m doing a postgrad funded by my employer but have signed to agree I will stay with the company for 2 years after qualification. If I don’t I’ll have to pay the money back.

Anyway if you have no formal agreement I think you just have a misunderstanding here. I’d contact her first thing to say you expect her in work on Tuesdays when uni is closed. Ahead of next week so she knows she has to book an extra days AL if need be. But I don’t think you can dock wages retrospectively as nothing was made clear.

Whodafeck · 15/04/2019 20:34

But today is Monday?

Fiveletters · 15/04/2019 20:34

I see that people have already mentioned that it’s not Tuesday....

I think you need to discuss your expectations with her

TheDarkOverload · 15/04/2019 20:36

If it wasn't made clear that she should be in when uni isn't on, then you can't do anything.

She should have realised she couldn't just have a day off instead but equally you should have made the expectations clear.

You never know though, she may have been using the day as a genuine study day in which case, what's the difference between her attending a class or doing individual learning?

Either way, bring her in and go over the t&cs in detail so there are no more misunderstandings.

Ewitsahooman · 15/04/2019 20:37

As others have said, today is Monday so unless she's studying time travel it's not possible that she's already missed work tomorrow.

As for the issue of her not coming on on her uni day during holidays, you don't have a leg to stand on. You failed to clarify with her what the precise terms were and that she would be expected in the office when university isn't running therefore you have no right of complaint that she's presumed the current arrangement is correct. There must have been other university holidays before now and yet you've waited until three quarters of the way through the academic year to raise it? You'd be opening yourself up to potential legal action if you were to dock her wages based on unclear terms and conditions.

Moving forward, you should have a discussion with her where you make it clear that from this point onwards if university isn't on then she either comes into work or she takes the day as unpaid leave.

adaline · 15/04/2019 20:39

I thought she was at university on Tuesday's, not Mondays?

mellicauli · 15/04/2019 20:40

you can't dock pay , its illegal. Tell her to request holiday or come into work. Write up a formal agreement of what is expected from study leave. Forget the past, frankly it's your own fault for going with a casual agreement. Make sure what you wants happens in future.

MagicKeysToAsda · 15/04/2019 20:40

For goodness sake, get a written agreement in place:

one day per week released to attend university course within university term times only, subject to review before the start of each academic year, and may be revoked at (X) months of notice if the needs of the business change; X additional day(s) may be permitted to attend exams if applicable; employee is expected to devote their own time to completing other required research and assignments.

fee payment will be X percentage of university's published fees and be paid direct to the university by the employer, subject to review a) ahead of each new academic year, b) if the student does not pass the year;

employee undertakes to remain working for the employer for X period of time after the completion of their studies, unless the employer agrees to waive this under exceptional circumstances...

Also if this is a work-related course such that the employee may need to use workplace examples in sir assignments etc, make sure your confidentiality boundaries are set out clearly and show what may, and may not, be used.

converseandjeans · 15/04/2019 20:40

I can see why she would not come in tbh. In her mind Tuesday is her study day. I don't think you should dock her pay, however if you feel strongly then you need to make it clear for future days. I assume there will be another one in May.

LuckyLou7 · 15/04/2019 20:41

It IS Monday today, isn't it? Only if it's Tuesday, I was meant to pick my mum up from the station at 12.30 and she's probably still waiting...

ALLMYSmellySocks · 15/04/2019 20:42

It does sound like poor communication. It should have been clear exactly what was expected during University holidays.

ShitAtScarbble · 15/04/2019 20:44

It does sound like poor communication

Sounds to me more like an complete inability to know what bloody day it is!

stanski · 15/04/2019 20:44

I think you should have a sit down with her and explain this in clear letters and write it down make her sign that she has been told and leave her a copy

Leeds2 · 15/04/2019 20:44

I suspect she doesn't realise that she is expected to be in work if uni isn't on. So you need to tell her, asap.

DarklyDreamingDexter · 15/04/2019 20:46

I don't think you should dock her pay on this occasion, but rather call her in for a meeting and explain what's expected of her. Does she expect to get the day off each week once uni breaks up for the summer? It does seem a bit cheeky of her, but I'd try to deal with it by clearly stating the company's expectations, since these don't seem to have been made clear in any form of amended contract.

ShitAtScarbble · 15/04/2019 20:47

OP won't be back Grin Grin

MeredithGrey1 · 15/04/2019 20:52

Personally I think you have to let this one go and clarify it for the future, as this could be a genuine misunderstanding. She could easily have taken the arrangement to be “I’m in the office Monday, Wednesday-Friday, and Tuesday is spent studying.” Arguably she should have fully agreed all the arrangements of this set-up but then so should you. I’m not saying she’s totally in the right, just that it’s an ambiguous situation so I don’t think you can penalise her for interpreting it differently to you.