To think my childhood wasn't normal?

[Yarkoplan]

I've just been reading the thread about a couple having the police called on them after a 10 minute row and posters were saying this isn't normal behaviour. This has surprised me and made me think about my mum's behaviour specifically which in comparison to that thread seems extreme, but I've always just assumed lots of people grew up like this?

She was loving and financially provided for us, but was deeply stressed about her job and not very happy with her life really. She used to get into extreme rage over as little as us looking at her funny, even if this was imagined. She'd go from joking around with us to screaming and furious in a second.

We had numerous incidents when I was around 12 where she'd get wound up and then would threaten to kill herself and tell us that it was because we were such awful children to her.

I remember lying in bed a couple of times at night and would be listening to my mum scream at my dad and hear plates smashing. Once I heard my dad telling her to stop throwing knives at him. It was terrifying at the time and I just lay in bed crying.

But other times she was lovely and took us on amazing trips to America and Australia so it's hard to feel one particular way about my childhood.

But her behaviour wasn't normal was it?

so it's hard to feel one particular way about my childhood.

Been there! Still am, I suppose.

Our setting was idyllic. Very rural, very safe. Out all hours playing kind of childhood. Cutsey perfect primary school. Riding lessons, lots of pets.

But my mum was neglected by her parents, then abused by her first husband. It left her damaged in a way that made her a bad parent - she would:

• endlessly recounting of details of her abuse every morning on th way to school
• impossible to admit she was wrong, screaming at us for asking simple questions or holding childish differences of opinion
• highly controlling and limiting of our social lives

On top of that, both my parents are very old fashioned in their tastes, and didn't go much out of their way to provide any other kind of 'normal' for us as kids in the way of fashions or toys. We went along with what they liked - stately homes, obviously. Not neglect, but combine it with the above, it didn't feel great.

So was my childhood fantastic, miserable and sad, or ok, but peculiar? It can be seen - and felt - as all three.

Mine was similar except we lived in poverty too. It was awful. I didn’t realise how awful until I got a lot older.

I’m currently having some talking therapy and finding it helpful to deal with feelings I’ve buried for the last 30 years.

@Yarkoplan
I’m sorry that’s really shit. But I know how you feel. Mine are divorced now. But they cheerily get on. Forgetting the misery they put everyone through

Not normal. Same here, really. Father with BPD and I’m pretty sure narc mother (she’s definitely undiagnosed!). So much anger and violence. Selfishness. Unreasonable and unpredictable behaviours between them, towards us, about each other but towards us.... just a cycle if ups and downs. Veered from spoiling us to neglect. If you don’t have a ‘woke’ sibling to discuss with, I’d say counselling is very helpful. Once you start understanding it, you’ll see so many things in a new light.

Also Yarko things will start coming through to you now that you’ve opened he trap door, as it were. Once you realise it was all so wrong, it flashes towards you quite thick and fast. The turning point for me was when I started having children and realised that I was opposing everything my mum suggested. I was quizzed on why I was so adamant to ignore every bit of her advice, and it started to become more black and white to me. That there was no way I would follow any path that she set for me. Once I started investigating those feelings, and started to detox my life, I became almost hyper-aware of potentially psychologically damaging people or behaviours.

Things can be triggering too. I’m not much of a cryer, usually quite realistic and accept things as they are. Once though, I stayed at a friend’s parents house in the countryside, it was on the way to an event we both went to and so seemed great. I’d never met them before and they were in their 70’s and looked like a stereotypical sweet granny and grandpa. Pipe and slippers type thing. Was woken up in the night by screaming and shouting, thins banging and crashing - turns out they row constantly and badly. Still even into old age it turns violent on both sides. I’m not ashamed to say I was so freaked out that I cried myself back to sleep. I had terrible anxiety and could barely eat for about a week after and my therapist told me it sounded very much like a particular episode between my parents that I’d described to her from when I was about 5. I hadn’t even made the association, I just thought it was horrible in and of itself. That’s a particularly horrid example, but these things pop out of nowhere and suddenly you’re back in your childhood and unconsciously remembering things.

Oh OP my parents were a lot like yours!

They rowed constantly! The rows would keep us awake most of the night and us kids would shout at them 'Shut up we've got school in the morning!'. They'd argue, dad would storm out, mum would be on the doorstep calling him a bastard amongst other things. When he was recovering from an operation she punched him where the surgery was and he split her head open hitting her with a glass jug.....! We grew up in the 70's/80's, can you imagine if it was now? Social services would have a field day.

I also had a friend whose parents would argue and then her dad would beat her and her sisters with a belt.

Btw my parents are still together!!!

What is normal? Every family has foibles and it’s not ‘normal' never to argue. In the main my parents were great but they rowed and went through some really bad patches. Same with me and DH - DD hates it when we argue. But I genuinely think it’s better to argue than bottle it all up and pretend everything is great. We work through our issues. I prefer people who express their emotions. What is important is to know that you are loved.

Oh can someone link to the other threads... was that about what makes a good childhood?
Thanks

Just read re your DM's life with her own DM. To be honest I think a lot of teenagers when they were younger had the same - my DM had similar re her clothes with her DM and my step grandmother also did similar re clothes and shops with her DD's - but they eventually left home early - were teenagers in early 70s.

My own DM wanted me to 'look French' and so she chose the vast majority of my teenage wardrobe though I did have some input into it when shopping with my friends - then again she was paying for it and any pocket money I earned rarely went on clothes

I did find it strange especially as a child - I rarely chose my own clothes - DM always chose them for me and not many either! I was clothed but sometimes via jumble sales. Her DM (nana) was very well off but we were rarely allowed clothes from her as one of her friends shoplifted kids clothes and tried to give to my DM and there was a row about that, and not many clothes being given to us via her! When DM had more money due to a better job I had more clothes but still on the whole AFAIK she chose them! I recall being 11, having nothing to wear for my birthday party - an older friend went with me and DM and another friend to a trendy shop nearby and bought me 3 trendy outfits with DM's money - one I wore to the party - all Bananrama style stuff! But DM was never really into clothes and preferred me to be chic - French style - navy blue/black as opposed to trendy!

My DF on the other hand - only child - brought up in a house where presumably were lots of arguments and his parents apparently went weeks without speaking and him as go between. They wondered why he was strange and an alcoholic in his adult years...

I personally think it's cruel to let kids be involved in family dramas like yours OP but it happens - not everyone has the money, guts etc to leave an unhappy marriage/relationship.

You could OP speak to your parents either alone to each or together and see if they're ok re their relationship, maybe have a blanket statement ready re their behaviour in the past but don't go into it. If they refuse to engage then down to them but at least they know you care now.

Oh, OP. I'm sorry. I don't know about 'normal'; I don't think it's a very useful word. It sounds damaging and hard and it must have caused you great pain. Sending hugs.

chocatoo - personally although I sometimes row with DH, the arguments my DM and stepfather I witnessed when younger weren't pleasant - my stepdad would jump up and down like a crazed man in fury and he had an untreated drink problem!

One time things got so bad that he left the family home and went to a holiday flat he'd recently bought on the coast and stayed there for the week. But they both still worked and he needed to be in London for work. It would have taken a lot I think for him to move out and start again. Also I don't count what he did once (and my mum got really angry about this) took the piss out of my DBro who had chronic asthma and he made fun of him wheezing. Strangely enough I rarely hear neighbours on either side arguing but I do hear the fathers sometimes getting angry with the DC! The DF on one side often goes out on long bike rides too - saviour!

It’s not normal but sounds a lot like my childhood. I was told “all mummies and daddies fight they just don’t tell people because it’s a secret”. There were fights every weekend from me being 8 onwards, crockery broken, knives pulled out, attempts at strangulation, hysteria, mum coming into my bed sobbing telling me she wanted to step in front of a lorry or that one day I’d come home from school and she’d be gone, Dad randomly leaving and not seeing him for days or weeks. It wasn’t normal, it’s left it’s scars. I can’t imagine what it would have been like to have a childhood free of this or to have felt safe and cared for.

My parents are also together but my mum is still talking about them splitting up especially now she can see them both getting older and him not being able to support her in “sickness and in health”.

Normal for me too.. Both parents were 'functioning' alcoholics who had screaming rows.. but mainly my dad who used to shout at my mother (and us DC) who would often go and lock herself in the toilet and leave us to deal with the fallout. I know I have inherited some of my father's anger issues and whenever myself and DH get snipey with each other, I am sooo conscious about whether the DC are in earshot. I am so terrified of the cycle being perpetuated.

No-one feels just one way about their childhood. It’s such a huge time period with loads going on that it would be impossible just to feel one way about it. Don’t worry about that.
PP who said this - thank you, it is very comforting.

OP - I was on the other thread as one of the 'who doesn't argue' posters. (I wasn't trying to minimise DV rather that we don't really know the full story etc.)
Your childhood memories coming up now will be tough and i would recommend you reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.
Your journey starts here. Good luck x

This sounds very similar to my childhood even down to the getting on well once I’d moved out at 18. It’s only as I’ve gotten older it’s dawned on me that it wasn’t normal and that the fact my mother would threaten to kill herself while telling me she hated me wasn’t just standard family drama

For people who have had counselling/therapy for childhood/parent issues, how did you go about it? Is it private and how did you go about finding the right person/type of therapy? As DD is getting older (almost 3), I am getting so conscious about not emotionally damaging her.

Absolutely not normal, but as a child of a borderline mother and an enabling father I can relate.

It's hard when you come to the realisation, as an adult, that your childhood was abusive. But that's what it was. I still find it hard to deal with the old memories and the resentment I feel towards them, especially as I'm now expected to help them in old age. Of course they were extremely irresponsible all through their lives so don't have a house or any savings. But that's a whole other issue.

I do think it's important that you confront your past and understand that the things you experienced were not ok, so that you can break the cycle going forward.

Not normal for me.
OP - do you wish that a caring neighbour had called the police when you were little?
Same question to everyone else who went through this.

OP, you have my heartfelt empathy, that wasn't normal at all. Have you considered some form of talking therapy to help you process it?

@supersop60 - yes and I remember wishing that at the time.

@sakura7 - also feel resentment. My feelings for my mother I find hard to reconcile too, because she now has dementia. Part of me feels terrible that she has this awful disease and that I should have do more/see her more (she is now in a care home). She was a very maternal woman and loved us DC so much and did so much for us.. But she still also used to drink herself into a stupor 4/5 nights a week and did not do anything about the abuse my father subjected us to. And part of me also thinks it's her fault for developing dementia! (It's vascular, caused by strokes - the heart disease is hereditary but also alcohol is obviously a massive risk factor).

No, not normal. I think you could do with looking at the 'but we took you to stately homes' threads.

So sorry Yarkoplan

No, I didn't have a 'normal' childhood either. Sounds similar to yours, we were loved but I think my parents were overwhelmed with juggling work, childcare and grinding poverty and still being emotionally abused by relatives and denial. My parents too views our childhood with rose tinted glasses and claims I'm mistaken that anything was wrong. It hurts to have your pain dismissed and it took me a while to accept that abuse and neglect featured largly in my childhood despite some nice memories of 'normality'. I've more or less come to terms with it now but I'll not lie it took a while and i still have bad days.

I second reading and joining in on the toxic parents threads - it helped me a lot.

I've realised that when you become a parent, it triggers more memories and you look at past situations in a different light.

Before my DC, I would gave said my parents were pretty good ones, and I had a lot of love and protection from them . As a parent now I realise that :

• They didn't notice or care that I was being badly bullied at school and at home with so called friends on our road.

• My sister and myself hated each other, and they did nothing to try and make our relationship better, basically ignored our fights and her physiological abuse.

• Didn't encourage me at school or care that I failed all my O levels.

• Left me to my own devices every holiday. I used to basically make my own entertainment all day every day.

• Didn't encourage or even suggest any clubs or extra curricular activities.

All seems minor stuff, but it's basic parenting and behaviour I would never repeat. My partner cannot believe the apathy and lack of 'family bond' we had.

I can't remember any rows, I just think we were an emotionless family. My DF had an affair an left when I was 19. The first interesting thing that had happened to us. I now realise he must have been so unhappy. Life began at 50 for him definitely!.

So really, there is no black and white..it's all 'LTB' at the slightest thing now on mumsnet. I reckon if mumsnet was around in the 70's a hell of a lot more of our parents would be divorced!.