Problem neighour **TITLE EDITED BY MNHQ**

[KittenMittens1]

I think I'm really after advise and a rant tbh,

So let's start!! Argggggggh! Right, so we moved in our new house 9 months ago. Everything was fine for 3 months then everything started, there's this old lady around 80 that lives alone across the road from us. She was lovely at first spoke to my husband more than me but it was nice in general. Then all of a sudden she would shout abuse at me when I left the house saying I'm an alcholic (always the designated driver so not true) calling me every word imaginable, so I asked her a few times why and she responds with vile language and no reason. So I've called the police now 8 or 9 times on her for harrasment / antisocial behaviour. Turns out she's had 2 asbos and she's been causing issues for whoever lives in this house for over 5 years.

Police do f all, their hands are kind of tied with this one tbh as she's an old lady. Our cars have been scratched by her, she shouts abuse at our friends and family who visit.

I have for the whole 9 months been very civil, ignored her most of the time and when I do have enough tell her to get lost. Because I genuinely believe its a mental issue, the police have made her get tested for dementia and its come back she's fine.

I'm lost, I don't know what to do anymore, it's been hell, she just doesn't care how it's affecting us, I literally get panic attacks for the thought of putting the bins out. I haven't got a day in 7 months without been verbally abused. And this past 3 weeks she's taken to opening her front door and staring at our house for about an hour!, super scary crap! We've brought cctv since the cars got scratched but police still say they can't do much.

Advise please? Anything would be appreciated.

I would being very unreasonable not be standing for this OP...I think you sound so lovely and decent but kindness can be confused for weakness sometimes.I would suggest you get tough...now this is an unpopular way of dealing with it but I once had a problem neighbour and however reasonable and nice I was it just wasnt making the grade...the only language they understood was the kind they used and it was horrific but one particular day I lost my shit with them and in no uncertain terms used their language back and it frightened them to death...they now well shy away from me and are very cautious ...complete turn around,Some people however old or in what ever circumstances are beyond reasoning with as you may do with decent people...might be worth a try...not ideal I grant you but sometimes you need to show them enough is enough and put them back in their box....

I'd also get any visitors to report her to the police. Just keep reporting everything and hopefully they'll get fed up and actually do something rather than keep fobbing you off.

Does your council have an anti social behaviour officer, ours does and they were brilliant when some local kids were being dickheads despite all of the housing being privately owned. They would have put up CCTV if necessary and they have a close working relationship with the police and social services.

Surely she's in breach of the ASBOs? The police need to explain what is the point of getting an ASBO if they're not prepared to enforce it. Likewise they really cannot turn a blind eye to her trying to put poisoned meat through your door. Keep on at them about every incident, take it to senior officers including whoever's in charge at your local police station, consider involving local councillors.

Dementia can’t be diagnosed in 1 GP appointment and blood test. My best friends Mum has been diagnosed with Lewy Bodies dementia and it’s taken 6 months to diagnosis.

The thing with dementia is that it’s never the same in 2 cases. My friends mum can be totally normal in conversation but dig a bit and she’ll start telling you how my friends ex wife has a key to her house and goes in daily and steals things. It’s not true.

However this is a ‘fixed point’ in her brain. As far as she’s concerned it’s an absolute fact and nothing and no one would be able to convince her otherwise. Because for her it is happening.

It’s a sad and lonely illness.

I'm not convinced by her 'diagnosis'.

First of all my DF's GP completely failed to diagnose his dementia on two occasions, as they asked basic questions such as who is the PM and what road do you live on. It was only when friends intervened and recommended a good geriatrician that he got diagnosed. Without specialist intervention, you're none the wiser.

Secondly, if this lady has serious mental illness, the GP is not qualified to diagnose that anyway. Unless she's been referred to a psychiatrist for thorough assessment, the GP's line is meaningless.

The son may well be lying anyway, as, if she is diagnosed with dementia or severe mental illness, he would have to take responsibility for her. It could take work for him to get her into a mental health unit or a locked dementia unit, and depending on their financial status, it could cost a lot of money.

My dad had vascular dementia and could walk the standard dementia tests. He had been active in a political party and was very interested in current affairs, read the paper daily etc. Hence he could answer enough questions to get the all clear.
DB and I persisted , and when he was in hospital following a fall, where he had given a totally believable story to them- which we knew was cobblers and proved it - they did a different investigation and sure enough - dementia. He had enough ability to enable him to do what he wanted ( drive till we took the keys away, live on his own- while ringing for shopping every 30 minutes) so a one off test at the GP proves nothing.
I would approach Adult SS on the grounds she is at risk from her behaviour- and the food thing sounds scary- and you have children visiting don't you? And get visitors to report - especially as your nan is frightened to visit due to her abuse.

To be sectioned, she would need to be a danger to herself or other people. Bear that in mind if she tries to set fire to anything again, or something else that endangers you.

And/or need immediate treatment ^^

The only thing I can say is that if she does get thrown out or moved, it won't be because of you, it will be because of her behaviour!

Diarise every single incident, no matter how small. Keep the diary handy so that everything is recorded, and use it exclusively for this matter.

You will need proof of persistent anti social behaviour for your HA, police etc.

A relative of mine, in their 80s developed something I'd never heard of, called geriatric schizophrenia, it's not the same as dementia, exactly and they did't have a history of schizophrenia. It was really scary and upsetting-they didn't sometimes didn't realise they were ill but thought they could hear the neighbours talking about them, through the walls. They were having very odd thoughts -thinking people had got into the house, and were writing in thier books or something etc, they were sometimes seeing things etc.
At one point they were throwing pans out of their window at 2 in the morning, and the police got called out. I think at some points they were concealling some of their more worrying thoughts , from some people as well.

It took a few visits to get diagnosed ,by the gp, they had to take anti-psychotics, which helped quite a lot, they had quite a lot of help from social services, in the end and they did get better from it, though they are in a home now, following a fall. Apparently it's not all that uncommon, and is a bit different to normal schizophrenia, -I think maybe more treatable, possibly.It could be something that could be suggested to a relative or social worker to have checked,maybe.

OP how helpful is her son? I can see he is aware of at least some of her behaviour. Does he have any idea at all about what is causing her to do this (illness or just a nasty vile person)? Surely there is something he can do to help?

I think you should also take further precautions to protect yourself, especially having heard about setting of a fire and putting food with rat poison through the letter box. Could you buy a metal box to fit on the wall for your post and actually seal up your letterbox? If she's done those dreadful things she could progress to setting a fire through your letterbox.

She needs a CT scan to confirm vascular dementia. A relative had Social Services and the GP fooled for months. UTIs due to lack of self care can make symptoms worse.

Also you must keep a diary of all the incident dates and times. Keep it factual and brief. It will keep you sane.

for you OP. My suggestion would be to take back the power, don't ignore, don't retaliate, but patronize her, "lovely to see you to Margaret" with a laugh, "or Maggie you are such a hoot" she'll be wrong footed by this tact and it will help you feel in control by belittling the situation in your mind.

*I’d come at it from a different angle.

Tell the police/council/social care she is a safeguarding risk. Make her their problem. Make them take responsibility for her safety. This will be seen as a higher priority than harassment and criminal damage.

(Make sure you emphasise that you are not in a position to help her though).*

Oh, dear, another person who imagines "Safeguarding" is a magical word. It isn't. LA and Police still have to obey the law and calling it Safeguarding [which unless she is at risk or another vulnerable person is, it won't be anyway and the LA decide that] does not mean they can just pluck the lady out of her house, lock her away and solve all OPs problems. She may well still have the mental capacity to decide to go or not and if she does (a diagnosis does not automatically mean she lacks capacity as it is time and decision specific not diagnosis blanket) she can't be forced out except by eviction/arrest and detention/non molestation orders, just the same as other people.

OP - Housing or Police your best bet. But you will have to be persistent and keep all the evidence.

I wasn’t judgemental. Get off your ranting at me high horse. I was factual.

And i didn’t report the thread title. Someone else must’ve done that. And MN edited it, so you crossed a line.

Yes to janedoughnut's idea.

The main thing is that you want to build up an evidence base that shows this endless repeating pattern of harassment and criminal activity. Build it up and up (even if an agency gets involved and says 'we'll help', just keep recording, keep building up the evidence). This will be particularly important after any intervention is carried out, that you continue recording and reporting - the interventions quite possibly won't work and the behaviour will continue so you need to keep recording and reporting throughout the whole period. Or there may be a retaliation so keep recording, keep reporting. If she actually carries out overt criminal damage (you see her scratching your car record it and report it to the police, if you saw her trying to set a fire (can't even believe I'm writing this!!) then call the police on 999. Arson is a vile offence and she bloody needs stopping.

Malbec is right - sadly, as normal sane people who would want to act if someone reported stuff like this to us, we expect the same level of response from others and are bitterly disappointed when we don't get it.

So what ends up is that just odd incidents get reported then it all dies down then you report the next incident then it all dies down again, round and round it goes - for it to be taken seriously and acted upon (the critical bit) it's repeating endlessly the reporting of the acts, providing the evidence of the acts, reporting, evidencing, reporting, reporting - until someone actually does something.

Jesus Christ this sounds appalling 😲

It does sound as if the best thing to do is keep a detailed log of everything that happens build a case keep all the evidence photos recordings etc

So she hasn't got dementia - what's the next thing to tackle then?

I think you have to increase your actions. Ring 101 every time, regardless of poor response, it's being logged. At some point it will reach a conclusion.
DOn't worry about her losing her home (or whatever your concern was), badger housing association about their tenant. It's not like she'll be thrown into the street.
The longer you tolerate it, the longer it is till she gets help.