Anon. members - Forums open to court action??

[justasking111]

Was quite shocked to see this. Will this be a test case? Mumsnet is such a tame well run site compared to the comments I see in the online press. Is the writing on the wall for free (cough) speech or is it a culling of trolling. Personally I think that something needs to be done, some folk have no filter or are just plain nasty.

news.yahoo.com/transgender-activist-wins-court-ruling-forcing-parenting-website-reveal-identity-alleged-online-abuser-121317596.html

TalkinPaece, my post with regards to the Communications Act was in relation to free speech. I realise this was a defamation case but others were also discussing free speech and it seemed noteworthy enough to mention that free speech isn't really a feature of British law.

Regarding the defamation case, it seems like the disclosure of user details would be a GPDR matter but the GPDR features an exemption for criminal investigations that's quite broad. Even if the posts were found to not be defamatory in a court of law, the mere investigation of an allegation is sufficient justification for disclosure to the appropriate body.

Gronky
it seems like the disclosure of user details would be a GPDR matter
Having been on the receiving end of a Defamation Act check through MN, admittedly before GDPR,
the act is more powerful than GDPR

as I say, it will be interesting to see whether the case actually comes to court
let alone whether the comments are deemed defamatory

in my one, my comments were removed but quotes of them remain

People who feel very strongly that TW are not women etc are more likely to be on these threads so it's ends up with someone like me defending my views to lots of poster

Trans women are Trans women. Women are Women. A woman is an adult human female. Is biology transphobic? Are facts transphobic? Is the truth transphobic?

Oh dear @april.... I hope you signed up with a fake email... those comments are problematic....

@GeordieGenes these days I half expect a deletion message for just posting the facts regarding basic biology. Everything is deemed transphobic these days. The word is now rather meaningless..

Surely the larger issue in this case is that the person is misusing the Gender Recognition Act to suppress details of their previous criminal and civil convictions.
Their birth name makes those easy to find
hence their desperation to stop people using the birth name.

it seemed noteworthy enough to mention that free speech isn't really a feature of British law.

I dunno, Gronky. Some people from the US love to tell us that they have free speech and we don't in the UK.

On the broadest theoretical level I'm not sure there's much difference between the US first amendment and Article 10 of the UK Human Rights Act (freedom of expression).

I haven't examined the limitations of each in-depth, although I believe both apply to the government / public bodies rather than private companies like mumsnet.

What actually happens in practice and the impact of other legislation is another thing again.

I suspect that the UK 'hate crime / incident' laws, when overenthusiastically applied, may be in breach of Article 10.

I'm not even a pretend lawyer though so don't take my word on any of this.

Personally, I'd like to see a modicum of equal attention to the hate speech and vile threats, not to mention numerous incitements of violence towards women by trans people. 'Double standards' does not begin to cover it. Underneath, it is still male entitlement and total misogyny. It seems nothing will do but total annihilation of biological women.

@SleepingSloth
People who feel very strongly that TW are not women etc are more likely to be on these threads so it's ends up with someone like me defending my views to lots of posters. I don't want to and I don't have to

Yep, I hear you. I'm the same - and gave up trying a while back, as it's absolutely pointless.

But no one ever explains how TW _are W. ‘Because’ isn’t an argument.

Yep, I hear you. I'm the same - and gave up trying a while back, as it's absolutely pointless.

You are free to explain why you think this is a woman at any time.

You won't, because there is a cake to ice, or a cat litter tray to sort out; but anytime you think you can explain your thinking please crack on.

There must be something, as he managed to persuade trained professionals and get himself into a female prison.

I cant wait to find out what it is.

“I’m not going to get into the whole debate.”
No, best not.

I wonder sometimes if people know they'd end up being "transphobic" too if they really looked into it all. It's much easier to say "let's just all be nice!"

People can be as 'nice' as they want if they don't care about their own safety and dignity.

But professionals have a duty of care and safeguarding to think about. Legally.

Everyone is so scared of being called 'phobic' or [keeping it on topic] being accused of a hate crime through the courts, they cannot say what they see in front of their very eyes. Even those that are trained to spot conmen and devious/deviant behaviour.

As evidenced by the posters that waffle 'I think of them as women' whilst not being able to explain why. There must be a thought process there, to come to that conclusion, but they are never able to state it.

People take advantage of ‘nice’. Nice people end up shifting over to let those less nice take their place.

Be nice and kind - to those who don’t wish you harm. If people don’t care how you feel then they don’t deserve your niceness.

I'll give an answer - though why posters on this thread are so ignorant of other views and ask for them in a way that (inadvertently I hope) comes across as really quite combatative people (it's off putting, and leads to division, fine if that's your aim)

People are happy because their personal experience shows ordinary people living in the way they choose.

They might agree that people to abuse their normal freedoms need sanction, criminal sanction if necessary, but simply do not accept that any debate should be polarised around a small criminal minority, no matter how much noise is made by them or about them on line.

In short, we are Team Hayley. We dislike seeing the words and attitudes of Team Les in the mouths of anyone, finding them hateful and inappropriate.

And I doubt anyone else will post, because I fully expect my views will now be nitpicked and pilloried.

And once again it will be shown that, despite non-GC being a perfectly widespread and normal school of feminism, it is so extensively decried on MN (bet GC posters will also go all wide eyed and claim it's not, just as they disingenuously sing out how their slogan is 'only' the dictionary when they and everyone else knows damned wel, it's not).

But how is a TW a W? Just once for the record? Please?

Team Lies is very funny. Does that make them Tara’s Deluded? Or Team Misogyny?

Sont know why Team became Tara there...

Ahhh because I can’t type...

non-GC being a perfectly widespread and normal school of feminism

I’m not sure what you mean? What school of feminism is not critical of gender stereotypes?

Blimey, OP, it looks like there’s been a few ‘characters’ just lurking in the wings to attack as soon as this issue was raised. Apparently it’s transphobic to refuse to believe people can change sex and to centre actual women

Except no-one actually said that. Inconvenient, huh?

I'll give an answer

An answer, not to a question that was asked.

What is is about Karen White, the rapist, that makes you think he is a woman?

Edith, I honestly think that almost every poster on the feminism board would have been in your position a few years ago.

We were all happy with the status quo and trust system - but now "transwomen" as a term on the Internet means something vastly different.

The idea that a male becomes completely female and there's no longer any discernible difference at all, sheerly based on his say-so, is not just open to abuse, it is abuse: it's gaslighting.

And abusive men are then using this naivety to hurt women in real life, how does this not worry you?