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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if a 3 year old should be punished for bad behaviour?

98 replies

Iflippinghateplaydoh · 08/04/2019 00:11

I have 2 ds, ds1 is 3 and ds2 is 1.

Both have always been lovely easy children. Loving, thoughtful, good eaters and sleepers etc.

However the past 3 weeks or so ds1 has changed.

Everything is a battle. He refuses to eat any meal, he just won't even come to the table. So we ignore him completely and eat as a family without him. At the end when we bring pudding out (yoghurt and fruit or a biscuit etc) he will throw an almighty tantrum so we get his dinner back from the kitchen and put it on the table. He will the eat it.

Bath time has always been something he has loved. He asks for a bath constantly. Not now. It's torture. Kicking and screaming to get him in, wash him, then refuses to get out.

Being mean to his baby brother. Purposely pushing him or taking things away from him that he's never ever done before. Hiding his dummy from us all and not saying where. Putting blankets over him knowing he is stuck.

Saying things to us such as he doesn't like us or that he was glad I hurt myself when I bashed my arm etc. He has always been so caring it's actually awful to hear him say these things.

He is also starting to refuse to walk. He hasn't used his pushchair since last summer! He doesn't need it. But he will just scream and throw himself on the floor.

When we tell him off for any of these things he just laughs, to the point where he can't stop. Then gets a cushion to hide his face as he knows he shouldn't be laughing.

It's like he just does not care.

I genuinely cannot see what has gone wrong. My mum came to visit today and was gobsmacked at how different he seemed. She told me as she was leaving that she feels that although I've always said I'm against the naughty step / naughty corner etc she thinks that this approach is no longer working.

In the past whenever he's had a bad day I've always responded by ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby , which always worked and meant he then went out of his way to please again. I feel this phase may be over and I'm terrified now as I've suddenly realised - I really don't know what I'm doing

Please help!

OP posts:
CharityConundrum · 08/04/2019 01:19

*messing around, ofc

AlexaAmbidextra · 08/04/2019 02:57

ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby

What a bizarre thing to do. What would make you think that this would improve his behaviour? Guaranteed to make it worse I would think.

Tootyfrooty35 · 08/04/2019 03:08

He sounds incredibly strong willed but also like he's screaming out for autonomy. At 3.5 they also question your love for them, I'm not saying that you don't love them but they're testing it... He needs to know its truly unconditional. Which can feel very hard with a strong willed 3.5yo, they are challenging.
Love bombing had been mentioned but also try choices. So say bath time... You csn climb out yourself or I'll pick you up. Simple as counting to five then offer the choice and either they get out or you lift them.
Have a Google of Janet Lansbury and Aha Parenting. My go to resource... I have a 4 yo and a 2.5yo so sibling squabbles are deregour here. Oh and a two day old now!

Empathy and love is what's needed imo, and that's not passive or no boundaries but, like you say, you've seen where you sil has got with the punishment route 😬

Good luck, hang in there.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 08/04/2019 03:15

ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby

I think this may be what is causing the situation.

He is retaliating towards the baby. He's always asking you Am I your baby? He feels displaced in your affections, angry, jealous. I think praising baby whilst he struggles to deal with these emotions could ruin their relationship. Praise the good things he does. Reassure him.
I was once in a supermarket with my DC when my oldest also 3 was crying because he was tired. The checkout lady said goadingly "Why can't you behave nicely like the baby." Cue a full on tantrum.
I hate the word punishment anyway. It should be called a time out, not the naughty step, you don't want to give him the idea that he is a naughty child.
He's three and going through a phase. Distract him.. give him some real attention, especially reading at night, never take that away from him! That's when you can talk to him.
Explain to him nicely what you want him to do at meal times as pp have said, positive reinforcements, keep calm and don't let his tantrums push your buttons.

Tavannach · 08/04/2019 03:17

'How to talk so little kids will listen' by Joanna Faber might help.

Kungfupanda67 · 08/04/2019 03:49

Everyone moaning about ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby, isn’t that a fairly recognised way to treat misbehaving kids? Ignore that the other child is a baby, one kid is being naughty and the other isn’t, saying ‘thank you for playing nicely with the trains’ and ignoring the other is just making it clear that bad behaviour isn’t rewarded with attention. It’s the same idea as when a child hurts someone, make sure the hurt child is the first the get attention - don’t start telling the naughty one off while the other is still crying on the floor after being pushed over.

Op, my eldest was a proper threenager, no terrible 2s at all (I was also slightly convinced it was made up lol), but my second son is most definitely a terrible two. They all seem to go through a period when they are just little shites for a while. Your lovely boy will be back. My 2.5yo went through a stage of being dragged along the school run when he refused to walk - like you I have no buggy for him (except for long days out) so he has to walk. That one didn’t last very long, but I think distractions helped - go and jump in that puddle, how high can you kick those leaves, take a toy and ask them to help push the pushchair - mine likes to take a plane which then helps the pushchair fly. Eventually he realised it was more fun to just walk.
Good luck :)

CSIblonde · 08/04/2019 03:54

I think praising the baby when he's kicking off is really not a good idea: its very probably led to him feeling resentful & jealous & exacerbated normal age 2-3's tantrums. I'd up your praise for him when he's good. But have consequences too, for bad behaviour, no need to be shouty, just remove a toy or TV programme he enjoys for that day. As for baths, would a quick wash or shower be an alternative. Meals I'd just have yours with no comment and give him his when he asks. Pick your battles.

3ChangingForNow · 08/04/2019 04:07

The refusing to walk is probably him trying to be like the baby...

3ChangingForNow · 08/04/2019 04:10

I highly recommend the book All Children Flourishing it's got very specific techniques

FenellaMaxwell · 08/04/2019 04:17

Lots of love and affection and praise for good behaviour but no engagement with bad behaviour. So if he won’t sit at the table and eat dinner then that fine. But don’t serve it to him later. Just say it’s dinner time now - come and eat, there’s won’t be another chance. And then ignore. Same for fighting to stay in the bath. Just run the water out and if he won’t get out then he can sit there for a bit. He’s trying to test you, just don’t rise to it.

mrsmuddlepies · 08/04/2019 04:28

Teachers are told to praise as often as possible. Catch them being good and go overboard on the praise. You sound like a really lovely Mum. He will come through this but he needs your support and love. It is hard being three.

StoppinBy · 08/04/2019 05:23

I agree with the PP that said you don't use story time as currency, neither do you use things like cuddles/kisses etc, we don't want to not love our children but they do need consequences.

For instance, if he is covering or hurting the baby, in our house that results in a certain time (say 10 minutes/20 minutes/whatever you think is reasonable) where he can't be within arms reach of baby, then once the time is up, call him over to you and baby and tell him that baby loves him and that he needs to be kind and then encourage some gentle play and praise him for his good behaviour.

All actions have consequences, whether they be good or bad, your reaction doesn't need to be a punishment and actually works better if it's a direct consequence.

harrietpn · 08/04/2019 05:52

I like 'how to talk so kids will listen'.

Have some 'natural' consequences:
'if you are fussing get out of the bath it's makes it too difficult to do them so we will have to have showers instead'

For the more bad behaviour (hurting baby) - some identifying with him and consequences
'i saw you do that, in this family we don't hurt each other. When I saw your age I had to learn the same thing too. We must not hurt the baby. What I'd like to see is your most best behaviour because it makes us all feel more happy'
Then if it happens again 'oh dear, I'm going to have to take the cars away for the rest of the day. I won't let you hurt the baby'

floribunda18 · 08/04/2019 05:57

Time out/naughty step worked well with my two. And lots of positive reinforcement when were being well behaved and reward charts.

nutbrownhare15 · 08/04/2019 06:07

Aha parenting.com is great, there is a game plan for preschoolers including discipline plus articles like these oneswww.ahaparenting.com/blog/The_Best_Way_to_Stop_Sibling_Violence

www.ahaparenting.com/blog/Stop_Kids_Hitting_Siblings My lovely 3 year old has just started to get defiant. It's frustrating but normal I believe based in what I read about. 3 year olds on here and other social media. The book how to talk so little kids will listen is also fantastic, really easy to use.

nutbrownhare15 · 08/04/2019 06:09

Live link to that first article: www.ahaparenting.com/blog/The_Best_Way_to_Stop_Sibling_Violence

nutbrownhare15 · 08/04/2019 06:14

And in answer to your question neither resource advises punishing children. Setting limits yes, punishing no.

HJWT · 08/04/2019 06:18

@Iflippinghateplaydoh my DD is 3 in September and when she has attitude she gets put to bed, usually the threat of it stop her in her tracks but you cant just ignore bad behaviour, he's not a baby anymore he's turning into a young child and your letting him get away with it without consequences...

stucknoue · 08/04/2019 06:41

You need to set age appropriate boundaries with age appropriate punishment - a naughty step, stool in the corner or having to go into a room without toys for 5-10 mins along with a firm no is enough, always make sure they understand what they did wrong

Iggly · 08/04/2019 06:48

In the past whenever he's had a bad day I've always responded by ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby

By doing this you’ve implied that he and baby are in competition somehow and if he’s naughty, you prefer baby.

But as he’s so little his thought process won’t be like ours. He won’t always be doing naughty stuff deliberately.

First of all stop doing that. If he’s doing something he shouldn’t, don’t focus on baby! Just introduce natural consequences which he can control. Also tell him what he should do calmly and help him do it. Praise when he does.

Try reading siblings without rivalry.

randomsabreuse · 08/04/2019 06:50

3 year olds are hard work... one thing that has worked for the bath is to have a reward afterwards so we have Paw Patrol as a wind down so long as there is enough time left - so she gets out of the bath (And into it) without the messing around for ages twattery.

Definitely seems to be stropping for strops sake ... threenagers...

There's a lot going on developmentally at three as well

Iggly · 08/04/2019 06:51

veryone moaning about ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the baby, isn’t that a fairly recognised way to treat misbehaving kids?

No - she’s not ignoring it - she’s telling baby how bad the older one is and saying oh dear that’s not good etc.

Ignoring would be saying nothing. Not telling baby how bad their brother is.

PhillipeFellope · 08/04/2019 07:02

My 2.4 Yr old had the naughty step. Why would you not punish bad behaviour? Age appropriate obviously but if he's pushing his luck then it needs to be addressed not ignored. He knows it's naughty, you know. It's naughty and it needs to stop.

Fluffymullet · 08/04/2019 07:13

I don't think you are doing anything wrong, kids just go through different stages and they all have their moment they are difficult. I had a difficult baby and toddler and felt like age 3 and 4 have got better and better. Friends who had easy going babies and didn't get the terrible 2s have found age 3 harder. I personally don't think the naughty step etc works well. Look at Sarah ockwell Smith's books, or hand in hand parenting if you don't want to go down reward chart etc approach. Good luck!

iano · 08/04/2019 07:23

Siblings without rivalry might be a useful resource. Some really practical advice in there.
First of all stop playing him and the baby off against each other.
The rest of it might just be 3 year old behaviour. My 2.5 year old does the bath thing and the pram thing. I thought they all do this. I've never come across a child that never wants to assert him/herself. It's pretty normal. I don't think it's necessarily 'naughty'.

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