How is Great Britain looking from abroad?

[longwayoff]

I've seen various remarks that other countries are confused by our current situation, although surely Ukraine's running it close. Any comments from outside UK mumsnetters?

Apologies to you esl, and to any other brexiters who don't want foreigners to go home because that would be racist. I dont know how I came to be so mistaken.

Just fucking get behind something and be done with it

No way. I'm not giving up my European citizenship or my DC's future without a fight. TM's deal is crap, a customs union isn't the answer so I'll hold out for remain. Don't really care what the rest of the world thinks - we're still an incredibly rich and influential country and I want us to remain that way.

so I'll hold out for remain

I understand that totally, but that attitude also increases the likelihood of crashing out with no deal.

I guess this is the problem in a nut shell. How can such a divided country reach any kind of consensus?

Actually lamb is a good demonstration. Right now the UK has an advantage in selling lamb to the EU. After Brexit they will be a 3rd country and have to compete with Oz/NZ producers in the EU.

@TheHumbleHawthorn - TM's deal is crap, a customs union isn't the answer so I'll hold out for remain.

But you are behind something. You want to remain. Unfortunately, the idiots you have in government seem incapable of getting behind anything other than their own careers and self-interest.

I'm also behind remain! It's the only sane option!

If forced to I would be okay with a 'Norway' deal, but I don't understand why anyone would vote for that when they could have greater voting powers by remaining..

TM's deal is crap, a customs union isn't the answer so I'll hold out for remain.

A customs union is the only possibility for NI. I'd love Remain, but the thought of No Deal or any deal that puts a border back up is horrific, so I'll happily accept the WA.

I'm also behind remain! It's the only sane option!

I was saddened to see 'revoke in the face of a no deal' strongly defeated in Westminster last night.

The more I think of it, holding out for remain feels like a very risky strategy. It doesn't look like the government will revoke.

While I would totally agree that Remain is the only sane option (to me anyway!), the fact is that the default position for the UK is crashing out with No Deal which is by far and away the worst scenario for everyone. If so many people who could otherwise swing a vote to customs union etc rigidly sticks to Remain or nothing, I'm scared to say No Deal will probably win by default. There needs to be some compromise somewhere.

The Irish issue!!! You mean the issue with The British border and Ireland. It’s your border and not ours.

You're not wrong Laurie. I'm just infuriated that parliament won't revoke when this mess is so real!

David Cameron, you have much to answer for. Bloody idiot (and the people who voted leave).

Thanks for wrecking our children/grandchildren future.

@doIreallyneedto You have 2 choice here:

I suspect we'd have to renegotiate the obligations.

I'm in Ireland and we have a phrase here when something is going the way that Brexit (and the negotiations and the meaningful votes) has been going - you couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery.
That's what it looks like.
I am not suggesting that anyone elses government is perfect. Far from it but what is utterly unbelievable is that the United Kingdom is tearing itself apart from the inside out. I really don't think if Brexit actually happens that it will be too long before Scotland has another referendum to leave the Union and if they do that, and are successful in doing that, they will apply to the EU for membership. I have no idea what Wales will do and Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU yet the DUP's are doing everything they can to screw with the GFA and the Peace Process by not voting for any of the suggestions, even for a short term solution. They are so blinkered in their views it's shocking.
It is fascinating to watch the situation unfurl in front of our very eyes (like watching a car crash in slow motion - you don't want to watch but you're compelled to).

I suspect we'd have to renegotiate the obligations.

Reneging on an international treaty. Nice.

Now, if you were a country thinking about signing a shiny new trade deal with the UK, how do you think you'd be looking at that kind of behaviour?

^Its not like we have a back up plan if this trade deal goes tits up"
UK Sheep Farmers and Processors: "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??!"^

There does appear to be a back up plan emerging:

Jan 2019 Japan opens market to British beef and lamb

UK exporters are set to benefit from a multimillion pound boost as Japan today opened its market to imports of UK lamb and beef.
beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/japan-opens-market-to-british-beef-and-lamb/

Dec 2018 Export boost for UK industry as India opens market to British sheep meat
www.gov.uk/government/news/export-boost-for-uk-industry-as-india-opens-market-to-british-sheep-meat

Jun 2018 A ban on the export of British beef to China has been lifted
www.gov.uk/government/news/china-lifts-ban-on-exports-of-british-beef

Yes, lets import all our food from thousands of miles away. That doesn't sound expensive or environmentally problematic.

@ Damntheman "I'm just infuriated that parliament won't revoke when this mess is so real!"

Revoking A50 would not put an end to this, quite the opposite. It would be throwing away all the work done so far and going back to square one. The pro-EU lot then realise what a precarious position that still is and seek deeper integration. The anti-EU lot shit the bed even more and the division widens.

I agree watcha we are looking at the disintegration of the Union if the grown ups don't arrive soon. Unthinkable yet possible.

Revoking A50 would not put an end to this

Totally agree with that

It would be throwing away all the work done so far

I'm struggling to see 'all the work' you're talking about. Do you mean May's WA that no one will vote for?

There IS no work done so far. 🙄

Yep. There's no actual progress to throw away.

What revoke WOULD do, however. Is get the UK back in a safe and secure position from which they can start to negotiate proper deals and a proper strategy for invoking article50 again down the road when they're ready (if they absolutely must).

What revoke WOULD do, however. Is get the UK back in a safe and secure position from which they can start to negotiate proper deals and a proper strategy for invoking article50 again down the road when they're ready (if they absolutely must)

True

How do you sell that to the leave voting electorate though (many of whom seem fine with no deal )?

I can see why the government don’t want to touch that.

The "work" is the political work of figuring out which of the many options can and can't get a majority in favour, which is constantly shifting as options are taken off the table. I think we'll get there.

Clavinova, how will the UK farmers be supported during the period of time it takes for the EU to accept the UK as a 3rd country supplier? According to your first article 90% of UK lamb and beef is sold to the EU (which actually sounds a bit higher than I would have guessed - but I suppose proximity and the single market make it easier).

Also these are emerging markets so it will take some time for lets say the people of India to pay the same price per kilo for lamb as the people of France. Is there a plan for the interim shortfall?

Back up plans are good but you need to have initial plans first.