How is Great Britain looking from abroad?

[longwayoff]

I've seen various remarks that other countries are confused by our current situation, although surely Ukraine's running it close. Any comments from outside UK mumsnetters?

I really don't think EU are making it difficult or trying to make an example of the UK. They are abiding by their own rules, which the UK knew well in advance. I think Michel Barnier in particular has behaved admirably in a difficult situation (despite the character assassination.
The majority of Irish people are happy with our governments handling of Brexit (based on a recent Irish Times poll and in my own experience). And believe me, we are happy to criticise Varadkar when we see fit but this is not one of those occasions for most people!
Whereas the UK does not seem to know what it wants and the UK parliament reflects this in it's current paralysis.

The breathtakingly arrogant demands referred to aren't the request to shake hands and go on our merry way. It's more the impression politiciians are giving of being very smugly sure that the EU will give Britain a better deal to leave than any of the member statements have to stay.

I mean.. I for one am hoping that this impression given is false.. but as each week goes by I'm getting the sinking feeling that Parliament genuinely does think that Britain can shake hands and walk away with 98% of the positives and without any repercussions.

So rich posh people are treating the UK like a colony, not caring about the ordinary people because they never have, they are just attempting to make more money.

This in spades. I’m baffled how people look at Rees-Mogg and his ilk and think, yep, that’s who I want representing my interests.

View from the south west of Ireland? It’s like watching the neighbours with the big house burn down the big house for no good reason. But with the added frisson of danger that is the threat of resumption of the Troubles.

It has been enlightening to see the anti-Irish sentiments bubble to the surface again from politicians. Looking at you Priti Patel.

The majority of Irish people are happy with our governments handling of Brexit (based on a recent Irish Times poll and in my own experience). And believe me, we are happy to criticise Varadkar when we see fit but this is not one of those occasions for most people!

Yeah agree with that

He’s been brilliant and I’ll admit I’m loving the steam coming from some people’s ears that he has the AUDACITY not to prostrate himself at the feet of Britain 😂😂😂

This bullshit really pisses me off. Nobody is stopping you from leaving. The EU have bent over backwards to facilitate it. However, they cannot, and will not, facilitate a withdrawal that allows the UK to renege on it obligations under the GFA.

The reason you have not left is because your elected representatives are self-serving, arrogant idiots who are putting party and personal ambition before country. In that sense, they are no different to most politicians but when you add in the level of arrogance and sense of entitlement they exihibit, you have the current shit-storm.

At last, somebody who actually gets it. Much better than most of our own population, unfortunately.

I don't understand how we ended up in this fucking mess - nor at this point, how to get out of it. Even Revoke, which is what I'd previously wanted, would cause deeper divisions and unhappiness and embolden the far right. General election? There's literally no party I could vote for apart from the Greens, or, weirdly, the SNP. I'm somebody who has hardly travelled abroad, and I'm starting to really really want to go live elsewhere. ThIs country is not one I am proud of right now and as an intelligent, logical and creative thinker, I cannot imagine a way out of this mess. And I am certain our politicians have no clue either.

Fix the Irish issue

You’ve only had three years.

Yes I agree too, Varadkar and Coveney are handling themselves very well and I'm no fan. Could you imagine if some of the other Muppets who we have had in the past were dealing with it. However if they show any weakness or take a step back then they will be he'll to pay from the public. Honestly it's a scary time, the jokes going around are funny and given a much needed light entertainment but whatever happens this decision could effect people, their livelihoods, their peace and so much more for years and not just in Britain.

Isn't London Gateway owned by Dubai? I am sure they will be more than happy to help their newly stand alone UK deal with the lack of trade deals causing issues at the ports and tunnel. For a price.

My point isn't that the UK shouldn't leave the EU. It isn't my business. But I just can't see how it is going to work given the current state of international trade.

The majority of Irish people are happy with our governments handling of Brexit (based on a recent Irish Times poll and in my own experience). And believe me, we are happy to criticise Varadkar when we see fit but this is not one of those occasions for most people!

Totally agree. Most here believe that Varadkar and Coveney have conducted themselves well on the world stage and have done a good job in representing the national interest.

Its cold comfort, but it’s slightly gratifying to see our politicians rise to the occasion while May and co flounder so spectacularly.

Completely agree re Varadkar and Coveney.

Plus the Irish Simpsons fans page has been comedy gold with Brexit. 😁

But the respect lost for the UK has been astronomical. My boss was just saying this the other day. We always thought the UK knew what it was at. It’s been quite disconcerting to see it become a total basket case.

@oldwhyno What demands? That we simply be allowed to resign our membership of their club, shake hands and go our own way?

Unfortunately, just going on your own way involves you throwing a grenade behind you and blowing up the GFA.

Our obligations under the GFA will have to be addressed but we shouldn't be letting that hold us all hostage to the EU's unrelenting federalisation.

You have 2 choice here:

1. Address how you will ensure you uphold your obligations before leaving. Nobody has yet come up with any viable option, other than the backstop, that also complies with TMs red lines. Other suggestions, such as the really intelligent suggestion to replace it with an unspecified "something else", would be laughable if they weren't so ridiculous.

2. Leave and renege on your obligations.

let's start defining our future trading relationship, and trying to fix the Irish issue

See above re the GFA. Oh, and by the way, it's not "the Irish issue". It's the British issue.

We won't be able to focus on those things whilst there's so much obfuscation and negativity from people who really just want to stay in the EU.

I don't even know where to start here. I believe your many brexit ministers were mainly Leave?

We all need to put this behind us and look forward.

That might be possible if you could just make up your minds as to what you actually want.

The EU have some major issues they need to focus on too.

Of course. Unfortunately, there is a ridiculous amount of time and effort being spent on Brexit right now. If you lot could just agree on something, rather than rejecting everything, we might be able to move on.

And the Irish border twitter account is brilliant

@LeesPostersAreInFrames - I'm starting to really really want to go live elsewhere

You would be very welcome in Ireland.

From the The Centre for European Reform - "a think-tank devoted to making the European Union work better and strengthening its role in the world.The CER is pro-European but not uncritical.We regard European integration as largely beneficial but recognise that in many respects the Union does not work well"

CER Vice-President;

Leaving is like joining

"At the time of writing, in January 2019, the final result of the Brexit process remains unclear.No particular outcome looks likely, but many seem possible:the deal Theresa May negotiated; that deal modified to produce a much softer Brexit; Britain leaving the EU without any deal; or a second referendum that could lead to the UK remaining a member."

"However, two-and-a-half years after Britain’s referendum, some lessons of the Brexit process are becoming clear.One is that leaving the EU is like joining it.Countries wanting to join engage in ‘accession negotiations’, but that is a misnomer."
"The accession process in fact involves the EU imposing its terms on the country concerned." "If it does not like those terms it does not have to join.The details can be debated but not the basic deal that the EU offers." "Every country that has joined the EU has put up with this unequal ‘negotiation’ in order to get into the club"

"Leaving the EU is a similar process"

@longwayoff

Have to stop you there. Not all Brexit fans want foreigners to 'go home', which implies they are all racist. There's far more to it than that and I find that is just generalising.

One thing I think we can all agree on is this whole thing has been a perfect storm. A pathetic 'Leave' PM who couldn't sort out a deck of cards let alone something as complicated as this, and pure and utter chaos from all sides.

Of course it’s not impossible to leave.

The EU has agreed TMs WA. There are other options available like staying in the customs union.

Just fucking get behind something and be done with it.

I’m suddenly struck by the fact that it’s the ultra brexiteers like the ERG and the DUP who’ve rejected every single proposal made to leave. At what point does the UK clock that they’re just time wasting trolls and face them down?

Adding to the consensus about Varadkar and Coveney. I'd back them to the hilt regarding Brexit. They've been solid and even tempered and are 100% focused on protecting the GFA.

I've gone from laughing in incredulity to getting really really pissed off. That fucking shower of arrogant entitled delusional assholes in Westminster are going to shit all over Northern Ireland, and us by extension.

I am meant to go to London for a birthday this year and I'm a bit worried about it, tbh. Don't want to go at all.

Oh and good luck making trade deals with Australia and New Zealand.

Them: "You have to take shit loads of our lamb or fuck off"
The UK: "Well, if we must... Its not like we have a back up plan if this trade deal goes tits up"
UK Sheep Farmers and Processors: "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??!"

My brother lives in Norway. Internationally they appear to think we are morons 🙈

Also, who in their right mind thinks its a good idea to replace food trade with neighbours on your doorstep with countries tens of thousands of miles away? Mind boggles.

Also, who in their right mind thinks its a good idea to replace food trade with neighbours on your doorstep with countries tens of thousands of miles away?

Doing their bit for the environment, too...

Internationally they appear to think we are morons

And they're not particularly pro EU themselves.

They are sensible though. There's the rub.

We are quite lucky in Norway to have an ambassador that's managed to actually be productive EL. Brother made a good choice!